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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

how are you liking the BMS compression drivers and JBL waveguides?

do you think you would prefer the old altec horn/driver combination with your lamda's instead?
 
I like the BMS, but it just needs to be tamed some more...

An Altec horn would be fantastic with it, but then I think you'd still need a super tweeter then..
 
those lambda drivers do look very, very cool...

I'm in the UK though, and i'm struggling to find a source for many of the drivers mentioned in this thread.

For the first build i don't want to spend too much, just see how i like it before splashing out on better drivers. Total budget for the whole project is about £300. Roughly $500 i guess
 
Listen UP gang; I'll say it once again:

15" woofers are NOT optimum candidates for EconoWaves, for three primary reasons:

1) Few woofers this size can play competently up through EconoWave's 1.6 kHz crossover frequency,

2) By virtue of the piston diameter, they are not a good match for EconoWave's 90° horizontal directivity at these frequencies, and

3) They force a larger center-to-center distance between drivers, and thus a narrower forward vertical lobe than smaller drivers.


fraser. said:
I'm in the UK though, and i'm struggling to find a source for many of the drivers mentioned in this thread.
Click to expand...
These are very likely a candidate:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1118&FTR=264-1118

I have them, but have not yet built with them. This weekend, maybe.... :dunno:
 
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I sure wish you were near and could measure mine Zilch.. I be curious to see if they bypassed what you're saying here.... I know they put #1 in the dirt, but I don't really understand #2 and #3...
 
#3 you may have some control over.

look a few pages back for the picture of the QSC/DE250 and Eminence drivers. You'll note the motor structure for the compression driver and woofer are closely aligned. if you can get a side shot of what you have, maybe from your collection of pictures, we can get an idea on how you did.

I personally haven't paid any attention to that particular detail yet, but when I build my newest set of front baffles I will.

on a side note, found a local electric motor repair shop. they stock motor run caps. bought two 5uf caps for $5 each and two 12.5uf for $12 each.
 
Zilch said:
15" woofers are NOT optimum candidates for EconoWaves,
Click to expand...
Does that mean Russellc has to stop recommending 22x5H ? :D
Seriously though, it's good news from my viewpoint.
Means I don't have worry about scrimping and saving and racing the clock before Harman discontinues C8R2235 kits.
He almost had me convinced that I neeeeed a pair.
 
Thanks for the info about 15" drivers. I'll cross them off the list then. I'll probably end up choosing one of these 12"s, although i'm not sure which would work best with the selenium:

Dayton DC300-8
Eminence Kappa
Monacor SPH-315
Monacor SPP-300/AD

I'm leaning towards the 300A/D at the moment, does it look like it will work:
Impedance (Z) 8 Ohm
Free air resonance (fs) 23Hz
Max. frequency range f3–2,000Hz
Music power 250WMAX
Power rating (P) 125WRMS
SPL (1W/1m) 94dB
Suspension compl. (Cms) 0.77mm/N
Moving mass (Mms) 62g
Mechanical Q factor (Qms) 2.25
Electrical Q factor (Qes) 0.30
Total Q factor (Qts) 0.27
Compl. equival. vol. (Vas) 305 l
DC resistance (Re) 6.3 Ohm
Force factor (BxL) 14Tm
Voice coil induct. (Le) 1.4mH
Voice coil diameter 50mm
Voice coil former Kapton
Linear excursion (X) ±5mm
Eff. cone area (Sd) 530cm²
Magnet weight 50oz.
Weight 4.5kg
 
EconoWave is TWO Today

Long since AudioKarma's largest thread, today with 9850 posts on 657 pages and 567,682 views, it's closing in on also becoming AK's #1 most popular thread, as well.

278 members have posted, with 87 of these having registered their project builds here to date.

During this past year, EconoWave has expanded into a world-wide phenomenon, represented on virtually all continents of the Earth.

Thank you to the growing list of participants for making EconoWave a continuing success.

Wave ON, AudioKarma! :music:
 
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Zilch said:
Wave ON, AudioKarma! :music:
Click to expand...

Wave-mover.gif
 
Zilch said:
The standard eWave lowpass and highpass are second-order (2-pole) filters. Pete used a much larger inductor in the lowpass and single pole highpass to align the dirver phase where Deluxe needed it to be with the deeper QSC waveguide.... :yes:
Click to expand...

will there be phase issues if the std high pass and std e-wave is used with the deluxe low pass and deluxe woofer.
 
SPAM said:
Does that mean Russellc has to stop recommending 22x5H ? :D
Seriously though, it's good news from my viewpoint.
Means I don't have worry about scrimping and saving and racing the clock before Harman discontinues C8R2235 kits.
He almost had me convinced that I neeeeed a pair.
Click to expand...
Well as one using both the 2225 and 2235 I would not scratch them off your list. Im sure Zilch will provide us with more info on the Peerless woofers, but Im gonna have to hear them before I scrap my JBLs as they kick some serious ass.
 
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Kappalite 3015 & D220Ti FR curves

Well it took a little while but I got back around to frequency response measurements. The frequency response plots show quick sweep (~85 dB) and pink noise (~60 dB) curves. The plot with 4 of each include the standard HE XO and the HE LE14 variant with standard and reversed HF driver phase.

The clear winner appears to be the LE14 variant (low pass = 900 Hz rather than 1200 Hz) which is shown in the other plot. :banana:

For what it is worth, I've been listening to the system for several weeks with the worst 2 configurations and thought it sounded quite nice.

Next up I should try the on/off axis (polar?) measurements and maybe an attempt at the frontal lobe measurements. Or maybe I should finish the center channel (Deltalite II 2510/D220Ti) and get the L100 out of the middle of the floor.:scratch2:
 

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SPAM said:
Does that mean Russellc has to stop recommending 22x5H ? :D
Seriously though, it's good news from my viewpoint.
Means I don't have worry about scrimping and saving and racing the clock before Harman discontinues C8R2235 kits.
He almost had me convinced that I neeeeed a pair.
Click to expand...

Absolutly not! After all, its the driver in the JBL 4430 monitor, yes a two way that is considered the "mothership" of E'wave. while what Zilch is saying is true, all of this is a compromise. A ways back in this thread when myself and others were contemplating 12 inch drivers, Wayne popped up with some very good things about two way systems using 15 inch drivers. I'll have to see if I can back track a few thousand posts and find it.
Sure, There's no doubt there may be a little narrowing of lobes and so forth, but it still is one of the most impressive sounds I've had, speaking of both the 2225H and the 2235H.

If you go back to the beginning, ( I was E'wave number 4 ) you'll see me jumping on a local craiglist JBL 4647 box loaded with 2225H. It was he who sent me the listing! ( Many thanks, one of the best buys I ever did.) It was also he who recomended I recone to 2235H. For more evidence, surf over to LH forum and peruse "4430 help" and the infamous "Q & D" threads. Lots of love for the 15 inchers! Are they perfect? Hell no! Do they sound great? Hell yes.

I'm sure, as physics requires, there is some lobe narrowing to some degree at some frequencies....so I only get a 5 foot wide sweet spot...not that bad really. For those out there who listen to planer speakers requiring a head vise to stay in the sweet spot, I really doubt you'll complain. Plus, they shake the house! All this stuff is a compromise, and your of course free to use what ever size woofs float your boat, but I wouldnt count out the 2235H or the 2225H for E'waveing. There are several of use doing so, and I havent heard any complaints from those boys!

If I really felt it was that compromised, I'd sell and build something else. Wont be happening any time soon, although I'm itching to put the 2" jbl waveguide and 4555 to work. and yes, I will be using it atop the 15" JBL.

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
Absolutly not! After all, its the driver in the JBL 4430 monitor, yes a two way that is considered the "mothership" of E'wave. while what Zilch is saying is true, all of this is a compromise. A ways back in this thread when myself and others were contemplating 12 inch drivers, Wayne popped up with some very good things about two way systems using 15 inch drivers. I'll have to see if I can back track a few thousand posts and find it.
Sure, There's no doubt there may be a little narrowing of lobes and so forth, but it still is one of the most impressive sounds I've had, speaking of both the 2225H and the 2235H.

If you go back to the beginning, ( I was E'wave number 4 ) you'll see me jumping on a local craiglist JBL 4647 box loaded with 2225H. It was he who sent me the listing! ( Many thanks, one of the best buys I ever did.) It was also he who recomended I recone to 2235H. For more evidence, surf over to LH forum and peruse "4430 help" and the infamous "Q & D" threads. Lots of love for the 15 inchers! Are they perfect? Hell no! Do they sound great? Hell yes.

I'm sure, as physics requires, there is some lobe narrowing to some degree at some frequencies....so I only get a 5 foot wide sweet spot...not that bad really. For those out there who listen to planer speakers requiring a head vise to stay in the sweet spot, I really doubt you'll complain. Plus, they shake the house! All this stuff is a compromise, and your of course free to use what ever size woofs float your boat, but I wouldnt count out the 2235H or the 2225H for E'waveing. There are several of use doing so, and I havent heard any complaints from those boys!

If I really felt it was that compromised, I'd sell and build something else. Wont be happening any time soon, although I'm itching to put the 2" jbl waveguide and 4555 to work. and yes, I will be using it atop the 15" JBL.

Russellc
Click to expand...

I would love to see the TD15S, in 9 cubic feet tuned to 20Hz, anchoring the DE250/QSC.

Sub? Who needs one.
 
Schumacher ® said:
I would love to see the TD15S, in 9 cubic feet tuned to 20Hz, anchoring the DE250/QSC.

Sub? Who needs one.
Click to expand...


I couldn't imagine that knowing what the M does... That S in a box that size would be insane... The M in a box half that size at 35hz is pretty crazy...
 
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