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Yamaha C-70 issue

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=334029

Sounds like a C50 could be a donor for original parts, however, most of them would be as old and could have the same reliability problems.

Yamaha Parts USA, as would be expected, does not carry any parts for this old of a unit.

I agree with probably needing to sub a compatible function relay and wire it in. Also possible is to custom wire in a relay socket although the purist in me suggest there are 2, 4, or more extra contacts in the audio and actuation circuits.
 
I had similar problems with my C-70. The output relays or mostly non-functional. It started with a slight static and hesitation occasionally when it was first turned on. Progressively, it got worse until now neither channel functions correctly. If only those relays were a little more reasonable in price.

I'm very interested in any relays that could be made to work with minimal modification to the unit or other viable solutions. So, do please continue with the suggestions!

What do you guys think about just skipping the relays? Obviously, you would need to wait until the unit powers up completely before turning on the power amp in order to avoid transients.

Thanks,

Daniel
 
I had similar problems with my C-70. The output relays or mostly non-functional. It started with a slight static and hesitation occasionally when it was first turned on. Progressively, it got worse until now neither channel functions correctly. If only those relays were a little more reasonable in price.

I'm very interested in any relays that could be made to work with minimal modification to the unit or other viable solutions. So, do please continue with the suggestions!

What do you guys think about just skipping the relays? Obviously, you would need to wait until the unit powers up completely before turning on the power amp in order to avoid transients.

Thanks,

Daniel

Bypassing could work if you only wanted to bypass the output mute relay. Special precautions would have to be made powering the amp, etc. I believe on the C-70, the source selection is also made by relays. That would kind of drive the whole experiment towards subbing in something, IMO.
 
Here is the layout. The contacts orient to the left.
I count 8 leads to desolder. But being a novice...what are the 2 squares of solder and do they need to be desoldered as well?
martin


DSCF0042.jpg
 
You might want to pull one out and confirm the pinout, but I think it might be this <attached>:
 

Attachments

  • Yamah C-70.jpg
    Yamah C-70.jpg
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Gotta run...will get on this soon
thanks Jon...really appreciate this.
Will see this thru to resolution...hang with me.
martin
 
I'm having a real issue getting the relay out.

I need to know If I am to desolder the square solder "patches" that are in line with the other 8 leads.

Getting 8 leads clean enough to drop thru the board is tough. I'm trying not to overheat them too much as I don't want to lift any traces.

Any "tips or tricks" on doing this. I've never had to desolder a component like this before.

thanks
martin
 
I'd use a solder sucker. Something like a Solda-pult.

Or copper wick.

If the holes are plated, you might have to desolder them, then grabbing the lead with hemostats, move it around the hole to loosen it while heating it with the iron.
 
Thanks Jon
But what are the square patches of solder on the board?

Those look like test points. A lot of these circuit boards are tested on a "bed of nails" tester, where contacts called pogo pins test points. It looks like Yamaha put those on there to test actuate the relay.
 
It's out...
more heat and the solder sucker needed more grease for a better suction.

Cracked case...which allowed the contact to raise up to meet the other.

Heat, time and use made it brittle I suppose.:scratch2:

thanks
martin


Original info...

MATSUSHITA
11 0 21 / 0.5A 125VAC
AW622226 1A 30VDC
HB2YD-DC24V


...and here's the pinout.

DSCF0002copy.jpg


DSCF0007.jpg
 
Last edited:
It's around 77 Yen to a Dollar right now. I'm not sure the seller would deal outside of Japan. It is another part number to look for though.
 
Congrats on getting the relay out. Note on the bottom of the relay that the coil is across pins 3 and 14. In this day and age, that's an oddball arrangement and probably why the new-old-stock relays are selling for a mint. Nobody's making them like that now. That pin arrangement used to be kind of the norm.

My worry is, is that you'll find some NOS relays, pay a lot for them and their contacts would have been in storage for all of those years just oxidizing away. Those relays were troublesome, even when the products that used them were current. I've seen those relays in B&O and several other brands. They were so troublesome when the products were current, that some manufacturers started substituting the yellow Aromat, gas-filled relays. The gas-filled (at least we thought they were gas-filled) relays were sealed. You couldn't clean them, but then again there wasn't a need. They stayed reliable.

Panasonic acquired Aromat and they have the sealed relays today, but not with the same pinout. I think you'll have better reliability if you get some modern, sealed, sub and pin map. It's really not hard. You know where the coil is. You just have to find where the com and N.O and N.C. contacts are. My guess is, the COM's are pins 8&9 and the N.C.'s are pins 2 & 15.

If you're going to spen a lot of money on the relays, you might consider putting in ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) sockets. They'll allow you to remove the relays at will and can make it easier to add pin mapped replacements at a later date.
 
Gentlemen,

I thought this thread could use, at least, some partial closure.

"Fortune favors the bold"...or the foolish.

Well, I did it...I swapped out the "audio mute" relay for the "tone/parametric" relay and the C-70 is singing again.

I understand that this is a less than desirable solution. It may be temporary or it may be permanent. I guess only time will tell.

I'll keep a lookout for a proper replacement.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

martin
 
Martin,

If I am understanding this correctly, you took the relay for enabling and disabling the EQ and replaced the your bad output relay with it? I want my C-70 to get back in action so bad. If so, how did this effect the operation of your unit?

Thanks,

Daniel
 
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