In need of lesson in Speaker Impedence
- Thread starter PioneerHPMLuver
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Paul C
Super Member
Hooking up multiple guitar speakers is one thing, they are all the same woofer, so parallel, or series, or series-parallel is all fine and good.
But with stereo speakers there are low, mid, and high drivers, and crossover networks. This presents varying impedance at different frequencies. If the speakers are dissimilar, and hooked in series, the impedance vs frequency of one will throw off the response of the other series speaker. Both speakers will produce response that is way off of what they would if driven alone.
In general, I will suggest NOT hooking up speakers in series if you expect high fidelity sound.
If you have speakers in parallel, and are not really cranking it up like a rock concert in your living room, you will not likely hurt your amp.
But with stereo speakers there are low, mid, and high drivers, and crossover networks. This presents varying impedance at different frequencies. If the speakers are dissimilar, and hooked in series, the impedance vs frequency of one will throw off the response of the other series speaker. Both speakers will produce response that is way off of what they would if driven alone.
In general, I will suggest NOT hooking up speakers in series if you expect high fidelity sound.
If you have speakers in parallel, and are not really cranking it up like a rock concert in your living room, you will not likely hurt your amp.
Grey.Coupe
Active Member
OK, a different question...
Speakers have a nominal voltage of about 6 Ohms. Amplifier has speaker output terminals at 2 Ohms, 4 Ohms, and 8 Ohms. The amplifier has plenty of power. Which terminals should I connect? What are the sonic trade offs, if any. Inquiring minds want to know!
Speakers have a nominal voltage of about 6 Ohms. Amplifier has speaker output terminals at 2 Ohms, 4 Ohms, and 8 Ohms. The amplifier has plenty of power. Which terminals should I connect? What are the sonic trade offs, if any. Inquiring minds want to know!
Possum_Dog
Member
So if I'm getting this right, If I run my four speakers in serie's , I can't sit here in my chair drinking my beer and switch from A to B on different
songs and rev my amp up near the red line and on other songs have all four speakers cookin' the neighborhood could I ? It's safer that way though huh? I had 68 GTO years ago, one owner, low miles. It was Motor Trends "Car of the Year" in 68 ! I ran the hell out of that baby and loved every second of it! Thats what it was MADE for! I'm glad it was wired in Paralell ! lol
songs and rev my amp up near the red line and on other songs have all four speakers cookin' the neighborhood could I ? It's safer that way though huh? I had 68 GTO years ago, one owner, low miles. It was Motor Trends "Car of the Year" in 68 ! I ran the hell out of that baby and loved every second of it! Thats what it was MADE for! I'm glad it was wired in Paralell ! lol
Unrelated but related, basically just a very good article on the subject:
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/concepts/impedance.cfm
Often overlooked is the impact heating of the voicecoil has on impedance. It gets hot, then it's resistance and inductance parameters change. Now you are dealing with an unknown. As a general rule, it's best not to parallel speakers if you know they dip down a bit.
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/concepts/impedance.cfm
Often overlooked is the impact heating of the voicecoil has on impedance. It gets hot, then it's resistance and inductance parameters change. Now you are dealing with an unknown. As a general rule, it's best not to parallel speakers if you know they dip down a bit.
So.....If I run my AR3's....with jumper cables running from the Ar3's up to a pair of JBL L1's on top(as a stack), with the positive of the AR's running up to the positve of the L1's and negative up to negative, I will be running in paralell, and since the L1's are 8ohm and the AR's are 4ohm I will be placing a 3ohm load on the Kenwood M2a? I am math inept, I swear to you......... ok....ok... parallel means total load will be halved, the total load will be 12ohm...so it is not 3 ohm, it would be 6 ohms. Correct?
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Anyone hooked up their speakers for matrix surround sound as per the link shown.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.co...nd-sound.htm&url=http://kantack.com/surround/
Essentially the front speakers are hooked up conventionally, however, the rear speakers are connected one to the left + amplifier output, the other rear to the right + amplifer output and the two negative speaker terminals are connected together.
Perhaps this should be a different thread but I bring this up here because I question what the total impedance is.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.co...nd-sound.htm&url=http://kantack.com/surround/
Essentially the front speakers are hooked up conventionally, however, the rear speakers are connected one to the left + amplifier output, the other rear to the right + amplifer output and the two negative speaker terminals are connected together.
Perhaps this should be a different thread but I bring this up here because I question what the total impedance is.
For in-phase content (same signal strength and polarity in both channels), the rear speakers are silent and do not load the amplifier at all.
For out-of-phase content (opposite polarity in Left and Right, which will be true of surround-coded rear content), there is a virtual ground at the junction of the two rear speakers, so each amp output sees one rear speaker impedance, in parallel with one front speaker impedance. Thus, if all speakers are 8 ohms, the amp has to drive 4 ohms at each output for the rear surround content, but only 8 ohms for the front content.
The out-of-phase (rear surround) content is emitted from both the front and rear speakers.
For out-of-phase content (opposite polarity in Left and Right, which will be true of surround-coded rear content), there is a virtual ground at the junction of the two rear speakers, so each amp output sees one rear speaker impedance, in parallel with one front speaker impedance. Thus, if all speakers are 8 ohms, the amp has to drive 4 ohms at each output for the rear surround content, but only 8 ohms for the front content.
The out-of-phase (rear surround) content is emitted from both the front and rear speakers.
PioneerGuy75
Certified Lurker
OK at this time my brain is starting to smoke.... 
Let's see if we can walk through it --
The front speakers are hooked up normally, sot he right plays only whatever is in the right channel and the left plays only whatever is in the left channel.
What is in the right channel and left channel? If something is supposed to be front center, it is equally in both channels, and furthermore it is in phase in the two channels, that is, when the left channel + terminal goes positive, so does the right channel plus terminal. If something is supposed to be in the center rear, it also appears in both channels equally but out of phase, that is when the + terminal of the left channel goes positive, the + terminal of the right channel goes negative. You still hear the rear material in the front speakers, but it is out of phase.
The front speakers are hooked up normally, sot he right plays only whatever is in the right channel and the left plays only whatever is in the left channel.
What is in the right channel and left channel? If something is supposed to be front center, it is equally in both channels, and furthermore it is in phase in the two channels, that is, when the left channel + terminal goes positive, so does the right channel plus terminal. If something is supposed to be in the center rear, it also appears in both channels equally but out of phase, that is when the + terminal of the left channel goes positive, the + terminal of the right channel goes negative. You still hear the rear material in the front speakers, but it is out of phase.
Second post - what happens in those rear speakers....
Note that the rear speakers are "floating" - connected between the + terminals of the left and right channels. Now, since curent flows from plus to minus, it will only flow in the rear speakers when there is out of phase material in left and right. In fact, since the rear speakers are in series, they will both produce the same surround sound (there is really no difference between left rear and right rear with this setup).
Now here is the tricky part about impedance:
When the left and right channel contents are in phase, they are equally positive or negative; thus no current flows in the surround speakers - they might as well be disconnected. So, for front material, the amplifier "sees" only the front speakers, i.e. 8 ohms on each channel (for 8-ohm speakers).
However, if the material in left and right is out of phase, it drives both the front and the rear speakers, so they act in parallel and the result is 4 ohms.
Another thing to look at is the symmetry of the hookup. If the left + terminal goes to +1 volt while the right + terminal goes to -1 volt, you can see by symmetry that the junction between the two rear speakers has to be at zero volts.
Now here's a little tricky bit - the arguments I gave above assume that the minus terminal of each side of the amplifier is ground, so that the same magnitude of voltages is applied to the front speakers as to the rear speakers. If the amplifier has a bridged output, where the minus terminal is driven the opposite polarity to the plus terminal, then the rear speakers will get less voltage than the fronts.
Note that the rear speakers are "floating" - connected between the + terminals of the left and right channels. Now, since curent flows from plus to minus, it will only flow in the rear speakers when there is out of phase material in left and right. In fact, since the rear speakers are in series, they will both produce the same surround sound (there is really no difference between left rear and right rear with this setup).
Now here is the tricky part about impedance:
When the left and right channel contents are in phase, they are equally positive or negative; thus no current flows in the surround speakers - they might as well be disconnected. So, for front material, the amplifier "sees" only the front speakers, i.e. 8 ohms on each channel (for 8-ohm speakers).
However, if the material in left and right is out of phase, it drives both the front and the rear speakers, so they act in parallel and the result is 4 ohms.
Another thing to look at is the symmetry of the hookup. If the left + terminal goes to +1 volt while the right + terminal goes to -1 volt, you can see by symmetry that the junction between the two rear speakers has to be at zero volts.
Now here's a little tricky bit - the arguments I gave above assume that the minus terminal of each side of the amplifier is ground, so that the same magnitude of voltages is applied to the front speakers as to the rear speakers. If the amplifier has a bridged output, where the minus terminal is driven the opposite polarity to the plus terminal, then the rear speakers will get less voltage than the fronts.
bakes
Super Member
All I know is that when I hooked up all four of my KLH-3s (they SAY 4-8 ohms, but trust me... that's a 4 ohm load per pair, or around 2 ohms in parallel as this amp would run them) to a supposedly high current amp, they sounded great... until the thermal protection tripped halfway through Joe's Garage.
My brain hurts...
The more I read of the thread, the more confused I became....
I have 2 AR3's (4 ohm), and 2 (6 ohm) bookshelf speakers.
MyOnkyo M-5140 Power Amplifier. 105 wpc 20Hz-20KHz, has A/B connections.
Connecting speakers to either side, (or both), will produce sound.
Should I connect the 4 ohm AR's to A and the 6 ohm to B? or jump from each AR to the smaller, leaving all on the A? Or not even mix the 2 sets?
I am looking for a little more "crispness" in the sound -
Thanks.
Neil
The more I read of the thread, the more confused I became....
I have 2 AR3's (4 ohm), and 2 (6 ohm) bookshelf speakers.
MyOnkyo M-5140 Power Amplifier. 105 wpc 20Hz-20KHz, has A/B connections.
Connecting speakers to either side, (or both), will produce sound.
Should I connect the 4 ohm AR's to A and the 6 ohm to B? or jump from each AR to the smaller, leaving all on the A? Or not even mix the 2 sets?
I am looking for a little more "crispness" in the sound -
Thanks.
Neil
Teebud
Got beagle?
wineslob said:Parallel: Hooking two speakers up with "jumper wires" + to + and - to - and then to one channel of your amp. This would present a 3 ohm load.
Series: The same speakers hooked up - (first speaker) to + (second speaker, jumper again) then to your amp using the + of first speaker and the - of the second, 12 ohm load.
I hope this clears the "mud" a bit.
Thanks for clearing up what I was afraid to ask!:thmbsp:
This is really confusing, but please correct me if i'm wrong. This are my conclusions after reading all the stuff:
1. I CAN connect a 8 ohm speakers to a 4 ohm amplifier
2. I CAN connect 2 pairs of 8 ohm speakers in parallel to a 4 ohm amplifier
3. In my Pioneer SX-680 have a legend in the rear (next to speaker connections) that say: "A-Only: 4-8 ohms, A+B: 8-16 ohm". That means that i can hook up 4 speakers with 8 ohms using that.
4. If i connect 2 speakers of 8 ohms to my receiver it can sound louder.
The last concl. is the most wierd IMHO. Please correct me, but, now i'm gonna buy 2 speakers of 8 ohms (like my actual technics 3way 8 ohm) to connect to "B".
Thanks
1. I CAN connect a 8 ohm speakers to a 4 ohm amplifier
2. I CAN connect 2 pairs of 8 ohm speakers in parallel to a 4 ohm amplifier
3. In my Pioneer SX-680 have a legend in the rear (next to speaker connections) that say: "A-Only: 4-8 ohms, A+B: 8-16 ohm". That means that i can hook up 4 speakers with 8 ohms using that.
4. If i connect 2 speakers of 8 ohms to my receiver it can sound louder.
The last concl. is the most wierd IMHO. Please correct me, but, now i'm gonna buy 2 speakers of 8 ohms (like my actual technics 3way 8 ohm) to connect to "B".
Thanks
centralflori
Super Member
I noticed you mentioned that you have a Pioneer SX626. I too have this unit that I have had from the 1970's, w/hpm100's. Is the face on your unit a bronze color? I was just wondering if they were all that color.
Probably a dumb idea, but that's why I am running it by people who actually know what they're talking about...
If I don't have a budget* and want to use four 6 ohm speakers on an amp that requires 8 ohm minimum at 4 speakers, could I add a 2 ohm resistor in line with the speakers so that they have an 8 ohm impedance allowing me to not have to worry about needing to keep the volume low, or exponential power and heat use as impedance goes down, as a trade for slightly lower normal volume, or is that just not going to work? Might it mess badly with the frequency response curve because the resistor has a more constant resistance than the speaker at variable frequencies? Or will it actually work?
If I don't have a budget* and want to use four 6 ohm speakers on an amp that requires 8 ohm minimum at 4 speakers, could I add a 2 ohm resistor in line with the speakers so that they have an 8 ohm impedance allowing me to not have to worry about needing to keep the volume low, or exponential power and heat use as impedance goes down, as a trade for slightly lower normal volume, or is that just not going to work? Might it mess badly with the frequency response curve because the resistor has a more constant resistance than the speaker at variable frequencies? Or will it actually work?