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refurbished AR4x- a review...

There's also the Parts Express speaker sealing rope caulk (the black stuff) for driver mounting; I just prefer their closed-cell foam tape, largely because drivers get swapped in and out of cabs here frequently.... :yes:
 
Zilch said:
There's also the Parts Express speaker sealing rope caulk (the black stuff) for driver mounting; I just prefer their closed-cell foam tape, largely because drivers get swapped in and out of cabs here frequently.... :yes:
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That PE rope caulk stuff is horrendously sticky. Imagine a 3 foot long, black booger and you're pretty close. I typically just use rope caulk (Mortite) from the hardware store. It also doubles as added mass for Vas testing. Not to mention you can seal a leaky window if you need to.

Urizen said:
I still have not stumbled upon my first set of ARs. One of these days.:yes:
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There's a set of AR-4x at my local pawn shop. It's about a 4 hour drive north of you. Interested? :)

Ray
 
Interesting review!

I had a pair of those some 30 years ago and they were simply fantastic back then. I remember reading somewhere that the 4x was by far the most popular model sold by AR (in terms of number of units sold). Due to it's very reasonable price, I don't doubt that.

Todd's comment about by-passing the wiper vs by-passing the entire pot is particularily important when you re-cap.

If you re-cap AND by-pass the entire pot, you risk making the mid range somewhat pronounced and possibly shrill. To correct, you might try attenuating the frequency range from 1K to 7K via an eq.

Hope this helps ...

Regards,
Jerry
 
I was at my local hardware store and found this product. I haven't read about it anwhere in AK but will be the first to say that it is good stuff. I just brushed it on my AR4X surrounds and am already listening to the speakers after about an hour for it to cure. It works...

http://www.handlaidtrack.com/pliobond.php
 
Hi,

What is the correct method of bypassing the L-Pad? I just got a pair of AR-4Xs today and the L-Pads are toast. Also, what exactly does "doping" the surrounds mean? These speakers sound awful right now, but I'm sure with new crossover caps, bypassing the l-pads and resealing everything they could be nice. Right now they boom with bass (enough I think to have rattled one of the surrounds loose or something) and have vry little top end at all. I'm blaming the xover caps and the l-pads but we'll see after I replace and bypass them.

Thanks for the information!
 
currituckco said:
Hi,

What is the correct method of bypassing the L-Pad? I just got a pair of AR-4Xs today and the L-Pads are toast. Also, what exactly does "doping" the surrounds mean? These speakers sound awful right now, but I'm sure with new crossover caps, bypassing the l-pads and resealing everything they could be nice. Right now they boom with bass (enough I think to have rattled one of the surrounds loose or something) and have vry little top end at all. I'm blaming the xover caps and the l-pads but we'll see after I replace and bypass them.

Thanks for the information!
Click to expand...


Hey, where in Brooklyn are you? I used to love hanging around the Williamsburg area.

In regards to bypassing the L-pads (actually Rheostats), do a search here- theres a diagram floating around about it.

New caps should definately liven up the top end- transformed these, for sure.

Doping the surrounds means adding a "dope", or flexible sealant to the cloth rings around the woofer cone. This drys out after a while on many speakers. Re-doping re-seals the cabinet as an acoustic suspension, as originally designed. With the sealant not applied, the air escapes the speaker through the cloth, in effect porting the speaker.

That will result in a slap/rattle of the woofer if driven hard, and is probably what you hear.

While many a folk use rubber cement or home depot products, I strongly recommend the stuff from vintage AR. For a few bucks, you get the perfect stuff, in color, texture, and I imagine longetivity.

Good luck!
 
thedelihaus said:
Hey, where in Brooklyn are you? I used to love hanging around the Williamsburg area.
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I live in Ditmas Park, south of Prospect Park - not too close to Williamsburg, but I'm up there frequently to play softball in McCarren Park and buy vinyl at Academy Records.

thedelihaus said:
In regards to bypassing the L-pads (actually Rheostats), do a search here- theres a diagram floating around about it.
Click to expand...

I'll look deeper for that - thanks for the tip.

thedelihaus said:
While many a folk use rubber cement or home depot products, I strongly recommend the stuff from vintage AR. For a few bucks, you get the perfect stuff, in color, texture, and I imagine longetivity.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link? I looked at his ebay page and found the putty to seal the woofer to the cabinet, but could not find the doping substance. Also, how much is applied? Is the goal to have as thin a layer as possible while making it airtight, or does one apply liberally?

Thanks for the responses! Now all I have to do is find a putty knife and spend 6 hours trying to get those grills off :tears:
 
currituckco said:
...Do you have a link? I looked at his ebay page and found the putty to seal the woofer to the cabinet, but could not find the doping substance. Also, how much is applied? Is the goal to have as thin a layer as possible while making it airtight, or does one apply liberally?

Thanks for the responses! Now all I have to do is find a putty knife and spend 6 hours trying to get those grills off :tears:
Click to expand...

He doesn't sell it online, but ask him and he'll send you some.

I also recommend the sealant he sells, as I've seen (heard) a few mishaps with the plumbers putty- if it dries out, and a piece breaks off, you'll hear rattling inside the cab.

The stuff Vintage AR sells will stay soft, moist and pliable enough to avoid this.

I'm a big fan of using the correct supplies- while the stuff at the local hardware store is convenient and in most cases will work, I find with the time and effort used to put into the restoration that one is better off going with the proper stuff.

as for the coating, a half jar of the stuff from vintage AR is the right amoint. somewhere between slathering it liberally and applying a thin coat. Go for a happy medium.
 
Thanks! I'll contact Vintage AR after I get back from the trip I'm leaving for today which will sadly take me away from these new projects.
 
I found a couple diagrams of bypassing mid and treble rheostats on 2- and 3- series AR speakers....a number of the people there advocated bypassing the treble pot altogether and wiring the mids to full. For the 4x would you still suggest wiring the pot open rather than completely bypassing?

Here are the links:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103672&highlight=rheostats+bypassing&page=3

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=110603&highlight=rheostats+bypassing&page=2

Both of those diagrams seem to show the way both to bypass and to wire at open, so I guess my question is on the 4X which should I do? I guess I can do one each way and compare...maybe I'll do that.
 
My friend Rodney did the mods, so I'm not 100% sure.

all I'm sure of is that they sound much better with the caps replaced and the mods done.
 
Well, it can only go up from how they sound now, they kind of sound like they're underwater! But I have faith that they will shape up nice after some work. Amazing amount of bass for a speaker of that size. I was shocked when I saw how small they are!
 
OK, here are the two options for pot by-pass:

attachment.php


attachment.php


Now, when you replace the caps with modern high quality units, more current will be allowed to the tweeter (less power dissipation in the cap). Due to this, I think the latter mod would provide a more pleasing result.

I think you risk making the speaker too bright, if you use the 1st mod AND re-cap.

Hope this helps ...

Regards,
Jerry
 
Thanks, Jerry! I think I will do as you suggest. And I can now order the caps, as I see on your schematic that they are 20uF. Excellent! Can't wait to get home and work on them!
 
One question - I can get Xicon 22uF non-polar electrolytics from mouser (added onto an order so no extra shipping) for a total of $.72 for both, whereas Daytons from parts express will be $4.95x2 +$6.28 shipping = $16.18. What in reality with the difference in performance be? It looks like 22uF puts the crossover point at like 900hz instead of 1000hz, so I guess that puts a gap between those two spots, as the inductor will still cross the tweeter at 1000hz. However, with +/-10% the originals might have been there anyway...anybody have opinions about this? I'm leaning towards $.72 because, well, the obvious.
 
I'd leave the originals in there before I'd use electrolytics.

Just add them on to the order next time you buy from PE, or consolidate orders with an AK pal....
 
Check the Solens film/foil cap prices at madisound.com - might be a little better pricing than the daytons, I haven't compared in a while. They were cheaper last time I recapped an AR.

As far as the pot by-pass, I prefer the "compromise" option - bypass the wiper (same as "fully on") and leave the pot in place.
 
i think i'm going to put in the electrolytics and then put in some daytons or solens next time i order something else from one of those places - then i'll see for myself the difference. all for the education, you see. or if i'm really unhappy with the sound i may just go ahead and order the caps. sadly i don't know any other AKers in real life and don't have any friends interested in this hobby (they appreciate the sound, but not the soldering), so i'm on my own with these parts orders.
 
onplane said:
OK, here are the two options for pot by-pass:

attachment.php


attachment.php


Now, when you replace the caps with modern high quality units, more current will be allowed to the tweeter (less power dissipation in the cap). Due to this, I think the latter mod would provide a more pleasing result.

I think you risk making the speaker too bright, if you use the 1st mod AND re-cap.

Hope this helps ...

Regards,
Jerry
Click to expand...


Jerry:

Forgive me for busting into this thread, but I've got a pair of 4x's that I just recapped, everything works, but I really want to bypass the pots or follow the second recommendation and set them al the way open. I've cleaned them, and on one speaker I can fiddle with it and find the sweet spot, but on the other the pot seems to have failed entirely (or I just haven't messed with it enough). I don't really care to restore the pots, but I'd like to leave them in place in case I want to later.

My problem is, I suck at reading schematics, and I cannot for the life of me translate what you posted to what I see in front of me. Do you know of any drawings or photo guides that could help? I have a blue wire and a green wire going to the cap. The blue lead goes to one lead on the pot.On the next one over, a yellow wire goes from the input terminal, and another yellow wire goes to the tweeter. On the third lead on the pot, a green wire goes to the tweeter. If I understand correctly,the blue wire from the cap needs to be detached from the pot and joined to the pot elsewhere. Does it go to the yellow wire or the green one? Or neither?

Whew! Sorry to be so confusing, but as you can see I'm really confused. Any help you (or anybody) can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Roy
 
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