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Non working Valencias, are they worth it?

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Zilch said:
It's just different objectives, really:

If you want vintage performance, you restore, and enjoy what they were.

If you want modern performance, you upgrade, and enjoy that.
Click to expand...



Yep, I have had lots of modern performance in the past and currently. Sometimes, its refreshing to appreciate speakers for what they were designed for and what they do well.

I would hate to let you have at my AR3's. Lord only knows what kind of turbo charging you would subject them to. :D

RC
 
Zilch said:
It's just different objectives, really:

If you want vintage performance, you restore, and enjoy what they were.

If you want modern performance, you upgrade, and enjoy that.
Click to expand...

Concise and to the point! Well said, Zilch!

In the case of my newly acquired Vals, I feel I have an opportunity here to pursue both objectives, almost simultaneously, for virtually the same cash outlay. And then I can stick with whichever seems more aurally pleasing.
 
I really think that RIGHT NOW everybody just crack a beer; and relax.......


Listen to your own freakin' system ENJOY what you have!!!


Christ I have Coral Kubuki Boxes and you guy are pulling out guns to shoot each other over your speakers like it's a friggin' Crusade!!!!

OMG how I love my dumb ears!!!!!


Okay, more beer. Out.


Matt
 
Glad you bought them.

Once you've done any necessary repair work,
you will love them.

I've a set of A7s. I put a ton of money into
restoring/tweaking them. I use a sub to augment the bass,
and a supertweet to sharpen up/extend to top end.

Mr. Brennan is highly correct. The midrange is to die for.
For me, the 511b horn/902t driver combo is the shiznit.

Enjoy!

Brother Dave
 
Oh no it looks likes I'm on deck.

And I have enjoyed a few (edit - many) beers after my drive from the Zilch Lab to south Sacramento. The drive was made much shorter just thinking about what I heard on the last setup - some all high end JBL that Zilch just had laying around. He even asked me if I really wanted to hear this lashup... Yes, yes I really did - I needed to hear it. After going through a few cliowin tests (the ones he posted) I got to hear what I wanted to hear and now I am ruined for life.

I need the full boat JBL experiance. Once the music started a funny thing happened, my right foot just started tapping - made me happy! Listing in mono in what little space we had. The tone and energy just roared out of this simple little 2-way like nothing I have ever heard. One of my college friends is the VP of engineering at NHT pro and while most of their stuff is OK this simple lashup at the Zilch lab kills everything my friend has made in the last 20 years.

Zilch made it very clear that I had to post that he is an overbearing jerk that only wants his agenda moved forward at any cost :) He is a very nice helpful guy. I hope to be able to call him a true friend someday. And he drives a 914 so he can be all bad.
Steve.
 
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Turn-coat!! This is an Altec thread, how dare you go over to the Blue Team!!:nono:
Haha Just kidding!!:D

So, what about the Vals? What did you find out? What were your conclusions, if any?
 
I don't know the blue team versus the other team, don't care and dont want to know.
The speakers sound just fine - a hell of alot better than most of the crap you can get these days.
These speakers would be great if you had a low power tube amp with 16 ohm taps.
Steve

Saint Johnny said:
Turn-coat!! This is an Altec thread, how dare you go over to the Blue Team!!:nono:
Haha Just kidding!!:D

So, what about the Vals? What did you find out? What were your conclusions, if any?
Click to expand...
 
look at the curves

they tell the story - i have got to to to sleep. It's stupid late.
Steve
Saint Johnny said:
Turn-coat!! This is an Altec thread, how dare you go over to the Blue Team!!:nono:
Haha Just kidding!!:D

So, what about the Vals? What did you find out? What were your conclusions, if any?
Click to expand...
 
Zilch said:
It's just different objectives, really:

If you want vintage performance, you restore, and enjoy what they were.

If you want modern performance, you upgrade, and enjoy that.
Click to expand...



That's your pedantic and smarmy attitude showing. You think that YOU define what is modern and what's an upgrade, actually it's just different and could very well be detrimental in terms of sound (sound, something you talk little about and which you imply is only of interest to jerk-offs). There's nothing unique or modern about drivers that gain extended response by means of resonant flares and traps, just talk to ole Max Potter.
 
srbliss said:
I don't know the blue team versus the other team, don't care and dont want to know.
The speakers sound just fine - a hell of alot better than most of the crap you can get these days.
These speakers would be great if you had a low power tube amp with 16 ohm taps.
Steve
Click to expand...
Glad to hear you like them! :thmbsp: I can't wait to get mine sorted out!

I WAS KIDDING about the Blue Team vs. Green Team stuff, BTW!!!
I don't take it seriously at all. Life's too short. They're just speakers, after all!!
Another pair will be along in a minute.:yes:
 
My oldest brother has a pair of $15k+ Verity Audio speakers that (according to their graphs) measure board flat, but otherwise sound like ass. They are set up in a treated room with Fibonacci ratios and using top-notch gear. I've heard other speakers in the same room, with the same gear that sounded quite nice. Anyway, it reminds me of Julian Hirsch, who could measure with the best of them, but didn't have the ability to tell good sound from bad.
 
Altec Fan

Very interesting thread and I just had to add my experience. I have had a pair of Altec Malibus (843A) with the same horns and woofers as the Vals except two 12" woofers instead of the one in the Vals. Over the last 25 years that I have owned them I have heard many systems (Thanks SMAC & AK Fest) and tried out several, and I think my Malibus could use more highs. I am definitly going to try the BMS drivers with the compensation circuit (thanks Zilch for all your hard work in the Heritage site, that was a long read). After all this time, to my ears they need something.

Steve
 
Details Please...

Zilch said:
He'll report the findings.

For comparison, Valencia LF sim is here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=68407&d=1195201236
Click to expand...

BMS4550 + 811+???...What xover was used: Stock N800-F? Refurbed N800-F? Something else? Any compensation circuit added? I see that 19KHz peak so apparently not complete circuit as detailed previously, eh? Coincidentally, the 19KHz notch is the last "refinement" I'm struggling with on my project. Although I can see the peak in my measurements, I can't reliably hear diffferences w or w/o the 19KHz filter. In the interests of reduced xover complexity, I'm quite inclined to leave it out of my final design.
 
steveb said:
Very interesting thread and I just had to add my experience. I have had a pair of Altec Malibus (843A) with the same horns and woofers as the Vals except two 12" woofers instead of the one in the Vals. Over the last 25 years that I have owned them I have heard many systems (Thanks SMAC & AK Fest) and tried out several, and I think my Malibus could use more highs. I am definitly going to try the BMS drivers with the compensation circuit (thanks Zilch for all your hard work in the Heritage site, that was a long read). After all this time, to my ears they need something.

Steve
Click to expand...

Since the Malibus are essentially Carmels turned on end (or vv), if you're looking for more HF extension, I think you'll like the BMS + comp circuit(s). To my ears the end result is very much in line with the original Altec sonic aesthetic but with a clearly improved high end.
 
Celt said:
My oldest brother has a pair of $15k+ Verity Audio speakers that (according to their graphs) measure board flat, but otherwise sound like ass. They are set up in a treated room with Fibonacci ratios and using top-notch gear. I've heard other speakers in the same room, with the same gear that sounded quite nice. Anyway, it reminds me of Julian Hirsch, who could measure with the best of them, but didn't have the ability to tell good sound from bad.
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
Saint Johnny said:
So, what about the Vals? What did you find out? What were your conclusions, if any?
Click to expand...

Well the Vals measured just like I thought they would. Rolled off on the low end just like I heard at my home and rolled off on the highs even more than I thought - really nothing after 10K. What I noticed at home using a simple SPL meter and some test tones was a big rise in mid-bass. You can really hear this (and it is obvious if you measure it) I think this rise is what many people find so pleasing about these speakers. I am sure it makes a very little amp make a lot of sound.
Don't worry I will NOT be butchering my virgin one owner (for 40 years) pair of Vals to turn them into JBL's in pretty cabinets.
Steve
 
Steve O said:
BMS4550 + 811+???...What xover was used: Stock N800-F? Refurbed N800-F? Something else? Any compensation circuit added? I see that 19KHz peak so apparently not complete circuit as detailed previously, eh? Coincidentally, the 19KHz notch is the last "refinement" I'm struggling with on my project. Although I can see the peak in my measurements, I can't reliably hear diffferences w or w/o the 19KHz filter. In the interests of reduced xover complexity, I'm quite inclined to leave it out of my final design.
Click to expand...
The BMS results shown are 4550 on 811B using 846B N800-8K crossovers I built this weekend plus the compensation circuit:

attachment.php


The compensation circuit only partially knocks down the 19 kHz peak. Like you, I can't hear it, but I believe it's worth addressing because the BMS factory curves suggest it's a resonance artifact with high distortion content.

attachment.php


Details here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1141355&#post1141355

Woofers are JBL 2235H in 5 cuft. JBL 4507 cabinets. That driver combination was my proposal for upgrading the Valencias, above, expanding the bandwidth at both ends, as illustrated in the measurement results.

I then substituted the HF drivers, waveguides, and crossovers from AK member Duffinator's project for the Altec components, and Steve decided he'd build a pair of those rather than upgrade the Vals. I leave it to him to explain why, if he's inclined to do so. In any case, I expect Duffinator will be posting the details of his project here soon....
 
Tom Brennan said:
That's your pedantic and smarmy attitude showing. You think that YOU define what is modern and what's an upgrade, actually it's just different and could very well be detrimental in terms of sound (sound, something you talk little about and which you imply is only of interest to jerk-offs). There's nothing unique or modern about drivers that gain extended response by means of resonant flares and traps, just talk to ole Max Potter.
Click to expand...
I don't talk about sound because it'd just be my opinion, and would piss even more people off.

I leave it for those who are willing to try my suggestions to conclude whatever they might.

However, I believe it's clear from the impressions of those AK members who have visited ZilchLab and reported their experiences in this forum that I don't have my head as far up my ass as some here would like to believe....
 
Well once again a thread gets flaming hot and personal! So now it gets closed for repair, that is if that is possible at this point!
 
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