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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Thank you, Wayne Parham.

Just got home from vacation, and find the thread is still going strong. In fact, stronger, due to the great posts by Wayne Parham. I will need to read and absorb the latest offerings before getting on with the latest version of my EconoWaves.

Again, thanks Wayne for the great info presented. Speakers 101.
 
Russellc said:
Did you ever locate any text to go with the illustration of the gap cleaning procedure?
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There's this from the folks at GPA:

http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/SmDrvrDiaRpl.pdf

While specific to small-format Altec drivers, the process is similar for most compression drivers of similar construction. An especially important caution is to be particularly careful using ferrous tools (screwdrivers, etc.) in the area near the gap. Guide the tip with your second hand, and keep control of it for the duration. The magnetic field is very strong, and a wayward tool or screw will smash a fragile diaphragm in an instant.

However the diaphragm is retained, it's always advisable to run sinusoidal sweeps through the normal compression driver response range to confirm the diaphragm alignment and adjust as required for pure tones throughout. The tolerances are tight, and small differences such as the torque of a retention screw can be significant with some designs.

Edit: Note via PM - yup, warbles're good too.... :yes:
 
D220&Econowaveguide&JBLwoofer.

well my 1st step is to see whether it integrate well with the existing JBL woofer. It is taking sometime as I had some other things to do.

step 1
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Using the existing x-over(DCX not used) from the MR825 speaker(bought 2nd hand with no CD and waveguide), the previous compression driver and waveguide replaced by the above combo. Measurements done on axis, see attachment.

Fairly flat except for a small rise at the top end I need to trim it back. More work needs to be done. Give me time felllows. I need to build a stand to lift the speaker off the floor to ear height.

I will listen to this arrangment for a few days. Initial impression is that the D220Ti sounds brighter than DE250, because the former uses titanium diaphram.

step 2
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Then I will use active x-over, DCX2496 and make the FR flatter and use biamping(above is driven using single amp).

step 3
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tweak the existing x-over and that will be final.
 

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ttan98 said:
I will listen to this arrangment for a few days. Initial impression is that the D220Ti sounds brighter than DE250, because the former uses titanium diaphram.
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Yes, if the acetate diaphragm behaves like the BMS mylar, it will sound more "mellow" than the titanium.

Your passive crossover is already within +/- 2.5 dB, and shows potential to be even better. I'd suspect they are sounding quite good together.

I'm only teasing with the "hurry up," of course. It's your project, and we're just here following your progress making it happen.... :thmbsp:
 
Tweak

I tweaked my D220Ti as shown. Sine wave sweep reveals no rattles.

Also mounted 123A-1 behind baffle; but it needs to move a lot more relative to the waveguide.

I show my new nearfield woofer reading after messing with the fiberglass stuffing. Comparo to tube amp for fun; I've been using the chip amp though for this project.

Next step for me will be to make woofer-only baffles so I can play with horn fore/aft and vertical spacing. Crossover going external. Apt. is no place to play with fiberglass and MDF.:thumbsdn:

Zilch and I believe, from practical experience, my RTA mic has a rise at 10kHz .

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skywave-rider said:
I tweaked my D220Ti as shown. Sine wave sweep reveals no rattles.
Click to expand...
Fixed, looks like. :thmbsp:

skywave-rider said:
Also mounted 123A-1 behind baffle; but it needs to move a lot more relative to the waveguide.
Click to expand...
Invert the phase to see from the notch if you're moving in the right direction, now. :yes:

skywave-rider said:
Comparo to tube amp for fun; I've been using the chip amp though for this project.
Click to expand...
Chip amp's better damped, apparently. Go figure. :dunno:

RTA's great good fun.... :p:
 
Excellent! Nice to know these abnormalities with the Selenium driver can be corrected. Its also nice that replacement diapraghms are only around 10 bucks or so.:yes: A sight cheaper than the diapraghms for my Altec and JBL compression drivers cost:thmbsp:

Russellc
 
I found one way to remove the "brightness in the Selenium D220Ti Titanium diaphragm is putting a small resitor in series with it, say 2.2-2.7ohm.The initial "brightness" will get less intrusive as time progresses because of the burn with time.

I am using the exiting JBL x-over and DCX2496 to give a boost at the bass. This model of JBL starts to roll off around 60-70Hz hence I need the bass boost.I t has high effciency, claim in excess of 100db in fact probably around 97-98db, it can play really loud.

Overall sounds quite good, in comparison with my open baffle, I am not sure I will keep this speakers, I have too many pairs, may sell it if the prices are good.

Cheers.
 
Haven't tried the DE250 and econowaveguide combo. The De250 can be too "tame" or smooth. I bought it from PE for $110(on sale). If you like I can mount it on the Econowaveguide and do a FR for you on-axis. I expect it to be very smooth(smoother than D220Ti) and dip at the top end.

Actually the Selenium is not bad after I insert a resistor between the x-over and D220. The "brightness" disappears. I may reduce the resistor to see whether the "brightness" returns.

The waveguide is quite good(much better than the spherical horn from Dayton), but comparable to the RCF H100 horn(costs $28 each) I use with DE250 a good match.

Overall the speakers sound good quite, they are very open, I am not so familiar with JBL speakers, a little surprise perhaps, the original speakers were meant to be used outdoors.
 
ttan98 said:
Haven't tried the DE250 and econowaveguide combo. The De250 can be too "tame" or smooth. I bought it from PE for $110(on sale). If you like I can mount it on the Econowaveguide and do a FR for you on-axis. I expect it to be very smooth(smoother than D220Ti) and dip at the top end.
Click to expand...
Yes, I believe members would like that. Some are using the EconoWaveguide with different drivers, and the more information we have posted here regarding alternatives, the better for everyone. EQ it similar to the Selenium, and then tell us how it sounds in comparison.

I'm pleased you like the performance of EconoWave, of course. It appears that we're all having the same shared experience here -- EconoWave plays surprisingly better than we would expect it deserves. :thmbsp:
 
I will conduct the FR on the econowaveguide and de250. It will do it on Monday, weekend is busy for me.

Most people prefer the best in everything, hence the Summa waveguide appeals to them whether it is CLEARLY superior from subjective view point as well as in measurements no one as yet to make a 1-to-1 comparison.

Maybe someone here will make a brave venture in get one(Summa) and conduct both objective and subjective review and report back.

I for one will wait until more reports start to appear, so far it sees quite good, but how many people will be able to shelf out $600 each just to try. I am quite happy with my Econowaveguide and H100 for the time being.
 
Check this

I popped one of my Klipsch K-22-K woofers on the front of the Econowave baffle and took some readings. I made no changes at all except for increasing HF level at L-pad. (There is a zobel in there too.) The crossover region is very clearly illuminated on the RTA. Simple to deal with, reverse polarity is actually the opposite polarity of what I am using on the JBL.

Anybody know which current Eminence is equivalent or better (lows) as a midwoofer?

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UT, oh, Skywave havin' E'Wave FUN, now....

The depth of that notch indicates that the phase/time alignment is quite good with the polarity reversed.

Is that 12" Heresey woofer?

If I were "shopping" for alternative woofers, I think I'd be looking pretty hard at some of the Daytons as well as Eminence.

[They're both probably going to want vented alignments, tho.... :yes: ]
 
Zilch said:
The depth of that notch indicates that the phase/time alignment is quite good with the polarity reversed.

Is that 12" Heresey woofer?

I I were "shopping" for alternative woofers, I think I'd be looking pretty hard at some of the Daytons as well as Eminence.

[They're both probably going to want vented alignments, tho.... :yes: ]
Click to expand...

I have been amazed at how good the 8 inch Goldwood GW 8028 is. I bought a pair at $17.50 each just to try to replace the Trusonic 80FR's with a simple and cheeeep 2 way fix. It performs darn nice for what it is. Some of their 12 and 15 inch drivers will probably get a look by yours truly soon. They certainly spec out nice at the price.
 
Zilch said:
Is that 12" Heresey woofer?
Click to expand...

Yes. From what Bob Crites told me, the "K" in K-22-k indicates a Klipsch manufactured driver. Eminence has and does make woofers for Klipsch, so I think it must be essentially the same as one of theirs, though it may be an obsolete model.

Zilch said:
[They're both probably going to want vented alignments, tho.... :yes: ]
Click to expand...

I'm not opposed to that. But I want to make the JBLs work; so I am still going ahead with the new woofer only baffle. The low end from the 123A-1 is pretty impressive. And I want to work on the waveguide orientation.

The Klipsch woofer provides a nice midrange, more forward sound. There are little or no comb filter issues I hear with the JBL in the current baffle. It sounds lively, like the Heresys, but smoother.

I will definitely try some alternative woofers when I can spring for it. I'll admit to you guys that looking at the specs makes my head spin. I have a waaaaaaay to go.... I believe software is in my future.
 
jackgiff said:
I have been amazed at how good the 8 inch Goldwood GW 8028 is.
Click to expand...
E'Wavers shouldn't rule out the smaller woofers, for sure.

Skywave's using 8" in one of his systems, and VTH 10", as I recall. Cuthien has an open baffle implementation, and I've just done Advents, approximately 10".

It's getting difficult to keep track of what everybody's building with around here, now ...

[ ... in the AK Speaker forum's biggest thread.... :p: ]
 
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