Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
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Russellc
Addicted Member
Bullshit. AR3a is a silly wanker in ANY area of speaker performance compared to this. Power response? At idle my 4647 with econowave will put out more everything than those speakers ever dreamed of at full throttle. For that matter the JBL you mentioned will outperform the AR. Nice vintage stuff, but so is a model T compared to a lamborgini! Really, there is no possible comparison.
Measurements are in the thread, very comprehensive ones in fact. Polar response and all were checked out by Geddes. These sound fantastic on axis, or as Zilch has recently said, Toe in so they cross in front of you and get a BIG WIDE soundstage. These have been scienced out the old fashioned way, and all your concerns have been addressed. Trust me, the two speakers you mentioned are nice vintage stuff, but this is a whole 'nother deal:yes: and will rock your world. Try it, you'll like it, just say yes
you wont look back.:thmbsp:
Russellc
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I have to agree about the AR3 and AR3a. I have a lot of experience with them in original and modded form. They were great speakers when they were invented. A lot has happened since then. Compared to nearly any competently engineered modern speaker they are very inefficient, dynamically limited, beamy and dullish sounding.
I do like their bass a lot and I keep a few around with the original woofers in the cabinets to use as ad hoc passive stereo subs.
I do like their bass a lot and I keep a few around with the original woofers in the cabinets to use as ad hoc passive stereo subs.
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
Yes agree with Zilch here, let's not start bashing other speakers, others are what they
are and some may even prefer them if they go with there setup or there preference to
a certain speaker taste, they may not be good on the spec sheet and some will still be
drawn to them in favor of a more accurate speaker. To each there own.
are and some may even prefer them if they go with there setup or there preference to
a certain speaker taste, they may not be good on the spec sheet and some will still be
drawn to them in favor of a more accurate speaker. To each there own.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Let's not rev up an AR3 war here, now.... :nono:
Will the AR 12" woofs play up high enough to mate with your EconoWaves, Bauhausler?
If so, seems like it'd be easy to kick them into "Woof only" mode, maybe.
That works with AR2s, I know.... :yes:
I doubt it. I think their crossover point in the wild is only 500 - 700 hz. I have 2 pairs here I can experiment with but the room is full - and I mean FULL - of other speakers at the moment and I can't get to them.
In my AR3/5A frankenspeakers I cross them over to the Kef B110 at 375 hz and they're fine up there. How high would I have to go to mate with teh E-Wave? 1200 hz??
Thanks, Kegger.
It sounds like you and Andyman have been comparing notes, aka "Collaborating."
Have you had an opportunity to try your E'Waves in your main system yet?
Jack found LE14As to work at ~900 Hz, as I recall, so somewhere in the territory of 1 kHz, probably.
It depends upon what the driver response is up there, and what lowpass you use, of course.
I've only measured some AR1 woofs in dubious condition here.... :scratch2:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I have a power amp hooked up to a Rane AC22 xovr here in teh rack. If I can find what speaker wires are connected to it I guess I can run some tests if I find time. I'd really like to find that the AR3 bottom plays well with teh EWG because I REALLY like the AR cab & woofer.
Keg can attest to what a speaker maze this place is, and since he was here I've moved in Linn Isobariks, NHT IIs, NHT I's, KLH 33's, KLH 32's, Large Advents and JBL L77's.
But the Acoustats are gone, which freed up 4 sq ft of floor space.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Thats it? I would have expected far more additions, Ross. I can swing by with a car load if need be.
Unfortunately, that's true. He knows where I live.
I only measured the AR1 woofer nearfield, looks like, but it does make it up to 1 kHz:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1744180#post1744180
Don't know what it sounds like up there, tho, playing program.
Maybe....
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I only measured the AR1 woofer nearfield, looks like, but it does make it up to 1 kHz:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1744180#post1744180
Don't know what it sounds like up there, tho, playing program.
Maybe....
I have 4 of the AR woofers. All have the 1/3 type frames. I don't know if this is equivalent to an AR2 woofer. I also have 2 pairs of AR4, now that I think of it.
2 of my AR3 woofers have the 'doughnut' applied on the front of teh cone and 2 do not. I expect the doughnut ones have more mass and probably poorer mid band response. I'll try the non-doughnut ones first.
I had a pair of AR1 woofers but those went away.
Before I do this I have to work over and photograph a pair of KLH 33 and a pair of KLH 32. Also I have to disassemble a pair (250 lbs) of Apogee Mini Grands and get them out of the way.
I have only rudimentary measuring capabilities but I should be able to tell if there's useful output in the 1khz range.
One concern about the AR3 with the EWG is front baffle width. The prominent cabinet rim edges have only 11.5" between them. The EWG could always be dropped on top for experimentation, but one of the attractions of the Advent version is the EWG fits on the stock baffle of the Utility cabinet.
I'll get up early & tackle this tomorrow.
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
Thanks, Kegger.
It sounds like you and Andyman have been comparing notes, aka "Collaborating."
Have you had an opportunity to try your E'Waves in your main system yet?
Yah Andy lives right down the street from me, we do get together on things quite a bit,
Ross/Bauhausler doesn't live to far away either, between those 2 "super" scroungers and
me keeping everything I come across we've seen/had a pretty good dose of most any of
the speakers out there your likely to come across.
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No I haven't gotten the Ewavers in my system, just to many things to get done for others,
an I've got some cosmetic things to finish, just to shoot some pic's out there, I still have to
paint the front baffel, recover the grills, an then I may revaneer the cabs including the top
piece in some crazy grained vaneer, but at least I now have the xover's mounted along with
the L-pads, I think the extra work on the waveguides to clean them up was worth it as well.
Attachments
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Hey! 'scrounger' indeed! I prefer to think of us as.. uh... Connoisseurs of the Obsolete or Those Who Appreciate the Depreciated.
Seriously, I'm moving into a Deaccessioning Phase in my collecting. After decades of Audiophillia I've sort of run the gamut and used up my enthusiasm for now. I'll polish off a few projects like the EWG Advents and start selling off the majority of the collection.
I need to concentrate on Career, whatever that might turn out to be. Toward that end I'll be returning to school in a few months at the ripe, if not actually pungent, age of 49.5.
I've had a lot of fun doing crazy audio projects and it's been great to work independently and make sort of a living at it but it's no way to spend the years between 50 and retirement.
Russellc
Addicted Member
Russell,
When society breaks down and we degenerate into murderous factions marauding about, I wanna be in your tribe.
PS: I think we're almost there, get ready.
Tribal application taken, will await armagedeon.
russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
Oh, sure and I agree. Zilch told me my beloved altec's would be smoked by econowave and I similarly balked. But, he was right. I still love my Altecs
and am not quite ready to dispense with them,
but they are what they are, and are not what they arent! Same way with the mentioned speakers, popular vintage pieces, but when people wonder about power response and so forth of these antiquities when compared to Econowave made from LE14 and ECWG on top, well its true. One can enjoy them for what they are, but a WHOLE lot of what they arent is revealed in an actual listening comparison. As stated it will be absolutely no contest, period. those two golden oldies will be whipped proper
Russellc
I dunno...
Remember, a man who does what he loves never works a day in his life.
I certainly hope you find something that you find more rewarding than rebuilding and modding tube amps or speakers. The drudgery of a 9-5 can certainly be brain numbing at the best sometimes and office politics/corporate idiocy can certainly add to the blood pressure as well.
If I could pay all the bills with audio, I'd do it in a second, but right now it's the filler and fun money.
Russellc
Addicted Member
Didnt mean to bash them, and have stated they are fine for what they are, and their continueing popularity low these many years later certainly atests to that. The question was raised about comparing power response of the AR and the other JBL model to the econowave. What I stated is simple fact. The poster was seeking info on whether to get AR, JBL, or ECWG made up of LE14, one of the threads favs. In particular. "power response" was mentioned as a comparison point. While excellent speakers in their own right, they just cant compete in this comparison with that combination of ECWG, no?
Russellc
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
Well said, If I could only ekk out a living at this! So far, it has almost put me in the poor house!
Russellc