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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

cuthien said:
Instead of using LPAD to attenuate the high, I put a 4 ohm resistor across the (+) and (-) terminal of the D210TI to match my Altec 414 (which is about 96db.) The loudness level seems to match it really well that way. Don't know if doing that would decrease the fidelity/peformance or not, just want to share my experience.
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You are surely altering the HF comp with that approach to attenuation.

In fact, the adjustable L-Pad we recommend is itself a compromise made in the interest of application versatility. In one of the links he provided, Wayne Parham illustrates how to vary the attenuation using different component values in the filter itself. He's the font for the compensation filter approach implemented here.

Recognize, however, that Jack worked out a "custom" version of Wayne's filter for EconoWave, and while that approach will work (Jack did similar to provide two different sensitivity circuit options,) Wayne's specific component values may not directly translate, and the burden shifts to you to verify the performance of that level of redesign.

As Jack suggested @ #1908, above, it's all "tweakable," but unless/until you understand how it operates together, the best course is to stay with the "stock" design(s). None of this is trivial.... :no:
 
Yes, i've now realized that using resistor across the terminal is not a proper way to attenuate the high. When i remove it, the sound is much more open and dynamic. I will stick with the LPAD. Thanks.
 
WOW!!!
alot of nice literature. I have a pair of 4311B control monitors that the tweeter and midrange on one of my speakers is not working. I would like to dismantle these and tweak them to revive that crystal sound stage. Could some one direct me to the right parts to restore my jewels back to or better than factory spec??/ I miss that sound they used to create in 79!!

Thanks,
Rick
 
8x8

Here's some info on the 8"x8" PT waveguide, part number 364700-001, $14.00.

I ran Econowave crossover for under 90dB woofer.
Cabinet is EV Sentry 100A, dual ported, 8" woofer.

My ECM mic has a few dB bump at 10kHz. Not as bad as bump in RTA shown.

The waveguide sounds very good though the uhf shows some rolloff.

My "other" D220 is a bit better, shown.

L-pad probably too hot.

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skywave-rider said:
The waveguide sounds very good though the uhf shows some rolloff.
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I'm calling that "Mighty good" right out of the box! :thmbsp:

Don't know why it's calling the XO frequency 2.5 kHz; this smaller waveguide is rolling off the Selenium up there, perhaps.

That's where I'd design with it, BTW.

Jack's building similar for his HT, so y'all'll have results to compare soon.

A little more HF padding, and I THINK I'd just be listenin' in the meantime.... :guitar:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE Series Compact Models/AC1895-WH.pdf
 
Andyman said:
Hmmmm, I wonder how that would work on my L60Ts.....
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That's a damn interesting idea.

Always thought the L60T had nice bass... it was the mids that sort of let it down. This could FIX that. Something that could result in an octave lower crossover point to the woofer... THAT could be pretty productive.

Zilch, did you ever do a waveguide combo with a 116A or 116H in any of your projects? That might be a very good place for Andy to start...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
That's a damn interesting idea.

Always thought the L60T had nice bass... it was the mids that sort of let it down. This could FIX that.

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much EXACTLY what Kegger and thought when we were A/B'ing the L60Ts and my LE14A waveguides.
 
GordonW said:
Zilch, did you ever do a waveguide combo with a 116A or 116H in any of your projects? That might be a very good place for Andy to start....
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116A and 116H I have mostly used closed-box in AR4x retrofits, with JBL OASR and 18-Sound elliptical waveguides. This new 8" square waveguide would certainly be a candidate for that application, provided there is sufficient cab depth for it to fit. Ported, I'd use L19 and similar as a model for those drivers.

116H-1 is just about my favorite 8" woofer, though I haven't done much with it. It is rugged and powerful, sufficiently so that JBL rebadged it and sold it as the T-80 car woofer. It'll play closed-box, too, though not as deep as the others (Fs=36 Hz vs. 28); it is a different driver. I used it in my Minis for a while, and the bass had delicious tonality, but did not reach as deep in that alignment, so I went back to 116H in those.

The best starting-point guide for what'll work is usually to study how JBL uses them. They have the luxury of designing drivers for specific applications, and though the same drivers often show up in different products, it's a good bet none of it is arbitrary.

L60T uses 116H-1 in 1.45 cuft. I recently recommended to Skywave that he try that driver in his project using the new waveguide, but I doubt he's found any yet. I don't know the L60T tuning, and don't have any to measure, but I'm sure we can track that down:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical Sheet/L60T ts.pdf

What are the diameter and length of the L60T port?

Even though 035tiA is just about my favorite dome tweeter, as you observe, this two-way combination is somewhat of a stretch for both drivers, and I would not hesitate to try the 8" Mini-E'Wave instead, now that Skywave has demonstrated it is workable.... :thmbsp:
 
Man that 116 sure does look pretty killer, using winisd and increasing the box to say, 2.5cft - 4cft
tuned lower really gets that thing goin, even pretty darn low, yah that could make a sweet setup.
(If the driver can hold together at those low notes anyway, looks to good to be true)

Could make a nice setup in an EPI 200 cab using the passive radiator then cut in the waveguide. :)
(Yo Andy you know where there are some 200 cabs) :smoke:
 
Kegger said:
Man that 116 sure does look pretty killer, using winisd and increasing the box to say, 2.5cft - 4cft
tuned lower really gets that thing goin, even pretty darn low, yah that could make a sweet setup.
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There's no free lunch. It's an 8" driver, bottom line.

What WinISD doesn't tell you is you'll long since have run out of excursion in those larger box volumes.

Again, look to how JBL used the drivers for guidance.... :yes:
 
That's one of the reasons I prefer Unibox to WinISD. Without plugging the numbers in to unibox just because, at what power level does the driver run out of steam?
 
dnewma04 said:
That's one of the reasons I prefer Unibox to WinISD. Without plugging the numbers in to unibox just because, at what power level does the driver run out of steam?
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With box and tuning optimization, it's possible to get 116H-1 playing 32 Hz at 20W in something close to L60T, according to BB6P. I've got a better curve in 2.5 cuft getting ~100 dB down there, but it all turns to poop in larger volumes.

Have a look at 2.5 cuft. tuned to 33 Hz with one 3" duct at ~4.2".... :yes:
 
There is a pair of 116H's on E-Bay, and the seller resides in Phoenix. I do not know enough about 116H's to tell, but they might be refoamed on the front side.
 
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