Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
Normally I wouldn't disagree with you, BUT if I had the 8" drivers and a cab that
was that size already cut for an 8" driver I see it as design just waiting to happen.
But yah if I was "building" cabs that large I more then likely would not be looking to
fill them with anything smaller then a 10" driver at least.
Greyhawk17
Well-Known Member
Question for Zilch...........
Howdy,
A couple months ago I started on my E-wave project and planned using Nova
8 cabinets, and 12" Klipsch woofers. I have planned to increase the cubic in.
of the cabs about 6-8" vertical to come out with appropriate interior volume,
and then got quite sick and hospital stay, so everything was basically on the
shelf for 6-8 weeks. Decided in the interim I would explore another plan as I
did'nt want to tear up good cabs....My question is do you think JBL LX-55
10" woofers would work well for this project, it would enable me to use the
Nova 8 cabs with just a new motor board, and no need to increase cabinet
volume....I have the JBL's, cabs, waveguides, and most of the xover parts,
Appreciate your thoughts/comments.....Thanks, T
Howdy,
A couple months ago I started on my E-wave project and planned using Nova
8 cabinets, and 12" Klipsch woofers. I have planned to increase the cubic in.
of the cabs about 6-8" vertical to come out with appropriate interior volume,
and then got quite sick and hospital stay, so everything was basically on the
shelf for 6-8 weeks. Decided in the interim I would explore another plan as I
did'nt want to tear up good cabs....My question is do you think JBL LX-55
10" woofers would work well for this project, it would enable me to use the
Nova 8 cabs with just a new motor board, and no need to increase cabinet
volume....I have the JBL's, cabs, waveguides, and most of the xover parts,
Appreciate your thoughts/comments.....Thanks, T
I have no experience with 410G woofers.
If you still have them in LX55s, bring woofer leads out the port, turn them upside-down, and play E'Wave sitting on top to make the determination.
Otherwise, just do it. There are plenty of alternative 10" woofers to substitue if these don't work out.... :yes:
Russellc
Addicted Member
The 2235H drivers are mounted and playing. I figure they will need breakin time, but already are working fine. I need to re-install the less than 95 db crossover. Much more bass, but a little muddy, should clear up with break in. Also. I only have one port closed off, so I believe this is 4430 tuning.
Unexpected advantage is the mids, which surprisingly have cleared up considerably. Dont know if its the driver, or just the fact it mates with the crossover better than 2225H did.
Only thing missing is the slam of the 2225H. Boy those thing reproduce drum crashes like no other. I suppose these will improve with break in, I'm sure some of it is just the trade off, more bass for a little less slam.
Time to change crossovers to the< 95 bd version, then on to the CC version.
Also, while I dont have a RTA, these two 15 " models work well in a 2 way, despite being a slight push to get there. Sounds great with either driver.
Cheers,
Russellc
Unexpected advantage is the mids, which surprisingly have cleared up considerably. Dont know if its the driver, or just the fact it mates with the crossover better than 2225H did.
Only thing missing is the slam of the 2225H. Boy those thing reproduce drum crashes like no other. I suppose these will improve with break in, I'm sure some of it is just the trade off, more bass for a little less slam.
Time to change crossovers to the< 95 bd version, then on to the CC version.
Also, while I dont have a RTA, these two 15 " models work well in a 2 way, despite being a slight push to get there. Sounds great with either driver.
Cheers,
Russellc
It's more than just T/S specs. You need to have some sort of a handle on how the woofer performs in the midrange region.
Given that, here's one that I would like to see in an E-wave: the Dayton Classic 12 from PE:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-320
I know that woofer performs pretty well up to around 1.5KHz... some care does need to be done for the response peak at 2KHz (notch filter)... but once that's done, it's a very good sounding driver. And at 92 dB sensitivity, it's pretty well suited for the E-wave. About 3 cubic feet vented at about 25 Hz seems to work...
The little brother (the Dayton Classic 10- PE # 295-315) is lower efficiency (89 dB), but with suitable padding, might be even easier to integrate with an E-wave... it's pretty much flat right up to 2KHz, with a nice roll-off above that...
Regards,
Gordon.
If you put the T/S parameters into something like BassBox and let it calculate the sensitivity, you do get something very similar to what they claim...
And, at least on the 10 and 12... I've found in real-world tests that they're in the right ballpark. The 10" is about 89 dB, and the 12 is at least 91-point-something...
Regards,
Gordon.
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
It's quite possable they've changed things since they first came out, but on my older
10" inch and 6.5" Dayton classic's they are down in sens from what PE published then.
(The 10 and 12 I've used in 3ways, and the 6.5 in 2-ways)
That is good to know that they are much closer to the specs.
10" inch and 6.5" Dayton classic's they are down in sens from what PE published then.
(The 10 and 12 I've used in 3ways, and the 6.5 in 2-ways)
That is good to know that they are much closer to the specs.
Yes. 2235H uses a heavier cone to achieve its extended bass with the same motor. Close a second port in each for them to play deeper.
There's a compromise alternative, 2234H, same motor, 2235H cone, but less the mass ring under the dust cap. Be looking for a another pair of 2225H needing recone if you want to try that, too.... :yes:
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Gordon,
I'm currently looking for suitable 8" JBL replacements for my mini Ewave EV Sentry 100A boxes. In the event I don't find anything, wonder if you would suggest anything new, Dayton or otherwise, which would be better than stock EV driver?
VTH seems quite pleased with his Dayton 10s in Muska bookshelves:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1985428#post1985428
He has supplemented them with small subs.
Unless we're trying to run on flea power, I don't consider these sensitivities too low. It's a classic design tradeoff to get lower bass in rational box sizes.
I believe you'll find the generic CD comp to be too "hot" for E'Wave. "Too much 'tickle,'" as VTH says. I measured it here somewhere....
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
VTH seems quite pleased with his Dayton 10s in Muska bookshelves:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1985428#post1985428
He has supplemented them with small subs.
Unless we're trying to run on flea power, I don't consider these sensitivities too low. It's a classic design tradeoff to get lower bass in rational box sizes.
Have no problem with there sensitivity, they play fine, I just found it less then stated is all.
Russellc
Addicted Member
I happen to have the originals that came with the 4647 right here in boxes. What all is different about 2225H and this 2234H? I guess foam surrounds instead of pleated, but am not sure of wha t else? I am assuming the sensitivity is like 2235H not 2225H? I dont think 2225H cones are still available, and there are aspects of the 2225H that I really like. I have never heard a 2234H unfortunately. That said, I am slowly beginning to learn that you generally know about everything JBL. Maybe I will search out a dead set of 2225H, and recone them.
Thanks for the commments,:thmbsp:
Russellc
Russellc
Addicted Member
VTH seems quite pleased with his Dayton 10s in Muska bookshelves:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1985428#post1985428
He has supplemented them with small subs.
Unless we're trying to run on flea power, I don't consider these sensitivities too low. It's a classic design tradeoff to get lower bass in rational box sizes.
I believe you'll find the generic CD comp to be too "hot" for E'Wave. "Too much 'tickle,'" as VTH says. I measured it here somewhere....
This reminds me, did Jack giff ever work out the compensation for the E'wave with cx 3400? I remember it was a little problematic, but I dont remember the punch line. Gad, am I lazy!:yes:
Russellc
Jack arrived at a working prototype, but I don't believe he's done with it yet, and I haven't measured how well it works.
I used another approach to demonstrate that it was feasible, but owing to the behavior of the Selenium drivers in the region of interest, a generic compensation filter that'll work over a wide range of frequencies is not a slam dunk....
Details are available via searching over on LHF, and comprise most of what I know about JBL. 2234H is the 2235H cone merely less the mass ring. It has higher efficiency. There are significant differences between that cone, voice coil, and suspension and 2225H.
2225H recone kits are available in both 8- and 16-Ohm impedances with MSRP = $158.
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
EDIT: Guess I was writing while Zilch was, but slower. What he said....
Russellc,
He did. IIRC he ran the HP, w/compensation, the entire leg of the x-over, minus the low pass section and connected that to the 3400 HF. Also IIRC, he ran the 3400 HP at 1200, which allowed the passive components to do their thing.
I ran the compensation only, dialed in 1600 as my x-over, and it worked.
Right now I'm on passive with the mini Ewave, so no active at the moment on Selenium.
Of course, no CD compensation on the 3400.
I do not remember my 3400 polarity settings. I set it up with RTA, and some of my amps reverse the polarity. By ear, I find wrong polarity makes "shhhh" sounds funny.
Love to know what you think. I find that x-over to sound good.
Russellc,
He did. IIRC he ran the HP, w/compensation, the entire leg of the x-over, minus the low pass section and connected that to the 3400 HF. Also IIRC, he ran the 3400 HP at 1200, which allowed the passive components to do their thing.
I ran the compensation only, dialed in 1600 as my x-over, and it worked.
Right now I'm on passive with the mini Ewave, so no active at the moment on Selenium.
Of course, no CD compensation on the 3400.
I do not remember my 3400 polarity settings. I set it up with RTA, and some of my amps reverse the polarity. By ear, I find wrong polarity makes "shhhh" sounds funny.
Love to know what you think. I find that x-over to sound good.
wianieq
Well-Known Member
Got the Marantz 7 MkII econo waveguide treatment done
These are way above anything I have yet used.
I need to get the crossovers cleaned up but I think I may be satisfied. I don't have any testing equipment, but are there any simple things I can do to tweak them?
The bass is amazing, the hf can be a bit harsh at higher volumes. I used the 210's, but since I now have the Pyle and JBL horns I'm going to get the 220's and make another set. I used the <95 version crossover.
What will happen these if I find cabinets to put them into, rather than them resting on top?
These are way above anything I have yet used.
I need to get the crossovers cleaned up but I think I may be satisfied. I don't have any testing equipment, but are there any simple things I can do to tweak them?
The bass is amazing, the hf can be a bit harsh at higher volumes. I used the 210's, but since I now have the Pyle and JBL horns I'm going to get the 220's and make another set. I used the <95 version crossover.
What will happen these if I find cabinets to put them into, rather than them resting on top?
E'Wave appears to be a revealing experience for most everyone who builds it. :thmbsp:
Try 0.33 uF in place of 0.47 uF C3 to tame the 210 highs a bit.
Let us know how you find the two to compare, please. :yes:
Where in the L-Pad operating range do you have it set for optimum balance between the lows and highs?
The woofer and waveguide will integrate better, and it will reduce any resonances coming from the free-standing waveguide. I don't hear any myself, frankly, and many others are using E'Wave just as you show.