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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Russellc said:
Any of the above would rock, I would go with the LE14Aa, refoamed of course.

russellc
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LE14A could be a great choice. My biggest concern, however, is "can they go high enough fluently, with good dispersion to perform well?" I like the bass from my LE14H in my 250Ti. But they also have a 108H crossed at 400 Hz that they ONLY take to 1400 Hz.. In this application, we're really asking this woofer (LE14A) to perform up to over 2K H

However, I figure it is worth a try, since I have several LE14A lying around..
 
Cosmos said:
In this application, we're really asking this woofer (LE14A) to perform up to over 2K Hz.
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I don't believe that's the case, but I can measure to confirm.

Early on, Jack worked out a specific lowpass for LE14A, shown as being 900 Hz, Variant #2 here:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1856214#post1856214

This project summary page is linked from Post #1 of the thread, which may be accessed by clicking "First" at the top or bottom of any page.

Note: With a design date of 3/18/08, that schematic predates the subsequent development of the low-efficiency highpass circuit, which may be a better H/L sensitivity match. I'll check that out, too.

I recall verifying this once earlier, but am not finding the data in my notes. No matter, with so many E'Wavers working with LE14A, it's worth another look.... :yes:
 
Cosmos
The other tempting drivers are D123, perhaps run full range as they have really nice mids..
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If you ever get into that project, please post some infos. I have a couple of those sitting in my closet. And I would love to build a small monitor system with those with selenium drivers. You are right though, the mid of those D123s are really nice.

MrT
 
Le14a

Confirming Jack's 3/18/08 shematic for LE14A E'Wave. Using the low-efficiency highpass, it's full "On" here; build with the high-efficiency one, just as he shows.

LE14A is a negative polarity woofer, so connect the HF same polarity as the woofer; standard is inverse. Cursor, the vertical dotted line, is at 1.6 kHz, virtually spot on the acoustic crossover point.... :thmbsp:

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Yeah, I'm listening to it; can't miss that part.... :music:
 

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Zilch said:
Confirming Jack's 3/18/08 shematic for LE14A E'Wave. Using the low-efficiency highpass, it's full "On," so build with the high-efficiency one, just as he shows.
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Thanks Zilch and Jack. There will be a couple LE14A and EWGs going into either a C36 (had S101 system) or L55 cabinet very soon. Just waiting on some new surrounds from Rick Cobb.


You know, I also have a stellar pair of L77 (LE10A and Passive Radiator PR10) sitting around waiting on a project.. I think it calls for a head to head.. :yes:
 
Cosmos said:
You know, I also have a stellar pair of L77 (LE10A and Passive Radiator PR10) sitting around waiting on a project.. I think it calls for a head to head.. :yes:
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OH, yeah. ;)

When that's over, check earlier in this thread for what filter Jack used with LE10, connect the LE10 woofer only to the L77 input terminals, and stick E'Wave on top. L77 bass is quite delicious, and measured driver curves are in my L77 upgrade thread here.... :thmbsp:
 
Zilch said:
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zilch, man, this is an 'over-the-top' contribution. :thmbsp:

wayne, enjoy your 'advanced class' econowave posts. :thmbsp:

these have got to be linked up on the page 1 index. nice work guys. this is fantastic work.

both money and time are scarce right now, so i am still thinking through my project. as for woofer matching to the econowave, one that i've been eyeballing is the bms 15s320. appears to be well built, plots on their site appear encouraging, models kind of like the jbl 2226, but costs a little less money. if i go that route, then i would need subs, which would also employ p.a.-style woofers.

alternatively jbl 2235's (either new or recones) seem to be getting lots of props. my concern with 2235's (or any 15" with an fs on the lower side; most p.a. lines including bms don't have 15's with low fs like the 2235) is that they might be trying to do too much. in a larger, low tuned cabinet, there is going to be lots of cone motion when the bass get's pumping. i'm concerned that this might muddy up the mid-range as the volume gets turned up. the idea of helper woofers (.5 style) doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. it would seem to make more sense to just put the extra woofers in separate cabs as subs.

so, the questions are:

1. any thoughts on bms 15s320 for matching to econowave?
http://bmspro.com/15S320.bms_15s320.0.html

2. at what spl (or even better what cone excursion) does it become better to separate the bass from the mids, so the former doesn't muddy up the latter?

thanks.
 
publius said:
The idea of helper woofers (.5 style) doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. It would seem to make more sense to just put the extra woofers in separate cabs as subs.
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You didn't ask specifically, but I can answer some of this.

Higher efficiency woofers do not typically have very much LF extension or excursion. Using a pair of them in 0.5 mode gets deeper bass from them without the concomitant IM distortion you mention. They are generally better in the midrange than extended-bass woofers.

15" woofers are a "push" at the high end, both in frequency response and dispersion matching. 2235H is an extraordinary woofer, but we're running to its limit with two-way E'Wave. There's not much can match it for extended bass, though, and that's the compromise here. A smaller woofer with 2235H as a sub would likely comprise a more acceptable approach to many designers, as would a larger horn/waveguide crossed substantially lower.

It's apparent we're also using the full "reach" of the older LE14A at #2484, above. The newer variants of that driver have a bit more bandwidth headroom at the top end, but like 2235H, all of the LE14s are capable of producing exceptional extended bass.... :yes:
 
publius said:
zilch, man, this is an 'over-the-top' contribution. :thmbsp:
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It wasn't a 10-minute exercise, for sure, but it certainly illustrated how the discussion specifically related to E'Wave, and also provided considerable insight into the design and operation of its highpass and HF comp filter.

Member Theophile posted the D220Ti data sheet in another thread here recently. Looking at the PWT response, it's pretty amazing what Jack accomplished using Wayne's approach and RTA measurement instrumentation:

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Econolinewave?

Ok, I've been kicking around the idea for a while. I've had the parts for a while and thought about taking EWG in a different direction. Today I finally got everything together in one place at one time. I've had these little 4.5" commercial sound speakers (usually used in ceilings for paging and background music) for years thinking about a line array. EWG was the catalyst.

For a first shot, they're not too bad. The little suckers are fairly efficient on their own so with 12 of them I have to run the EWG full out to sound right. I'll probably dig around and see if I have parts for the >95dB XO. The bass isn't earth shaking, but I have it outside right now and there's only 1. Either I thought I had more of these speakers than I really did or I have another box somewhere around here. I'm hoping the latter so I'm still looking.

I had them running off one channel of an Accurian for testing out in the yard. It takes about 15 or 20' for the sound to come together. With the holidays coming it may take me a while to get measurements but I'll get to it someday.

For now, it's a fun project to play with. :yes:

Ray
 

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Now that is way cool Ray! I like it!

MY HPM's outside I thought had decent bass where I would want more indoors,
but when I brought um in they were anything but shy on bass, you may be just
fine with the pair an the room enhancement, hope yu find the other drivers.
 
Ray, I'm going to make sure that next time I'm near a car junkyard, I'm going to see if I can get some Ford Econoline van name-badges for you. Econoline you want? Econoline you got! :D

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Excellent, Gordon! I was just going to prowl the Walmart parking lot with a screwdriver.
 
Finally decided to take this bear on. I never read this thread because of it's daunting size, but I just sat down and read about 5 pages worth. Looks very interesting! I must say that this must be the most popular thread in AK history judging by its size.

Maybe someday soon I might take on this project. I don't have any sacraficial lambs laying aroung here though, so if I do it will probably be built with DIY cabinets and new LF drivers..
 
Ray: those are very cool looking. I agree with Keg, inside you might be very surprised at how much bass they have.

Marantzfan: in the late two or three months, I've passed on many speakers at the SA or GW that would make fine candidates for E-waves. Look around, you might get lucky. Cheers.
 
I may just not have read far enough, but does the horn need to be mounted on top of the cabinet or could it be mounted on the front baffle?

Is there some reason everyone is mounting them on top that I am oblivious to?
 
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