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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Lest I forget, I'm sure I am not alone... I would like to thank those that helped make this project more than a notion but a viable project that anyone could complete. Kuddos to Zilch, Jack, Ray, Gordon, Kegger and the many others un-named who donated their time, knowledge and art to a project. It speaks volumes about the community known as AK. At this point, I have heard only two EWG systems. Both were easily in the best sounding DIY speakers I ever heard. I suggest to anyone contemplating on whether or not it's worth it.. It is well worth it and will shake your conception of a low cost DIY speakers ability to play with the big dogs. Do it.
 
From a linked article:

"Another key difference between a horn and waveguide is that a horn is usually used with a compression driver whilst a waveguide is usually coupled to a more conventional speaker diaphragm such as a dome tweeter without a compression chamber."
Click to expand...

Interesting. Definitely not a difference, the driver used has absolutely no correlation to whether or not something is considered a waveguide, IME.

Other than that, I think the author shows pretty well what waveguides do compared to traditional horns.
 
dnewma04 said:
From a linked article:



Interesting. Definitely not a difference, the driver used has absolutely no correlation to whether or not something is considered a waveguide, IME.

Other than that, I think the author shows pretty well what waveguides do compared to traditional horns.
Click to expand...

Barging in here on a completely unrelated issue. Do you still have that insert foam that you were experimenting with, and what's the status on that?
I'm finishing Unit 2 tomorrow for an audition for another interested potential eWaver on Weds.
Thx
 
DENNYDOG said:
I found an article on waveguides that some here might be interested in.

http://www.aeronet.com.au/waveguide.htm
Click to expand...

Thank you, Denny.

The article is excellent, and the experimental work is particularly interesting to curve junkies like myself.

Here, again, are the measurements of E'Wave as performed by Earl Geddes, for comparison; increments are 7.5°, 0° - 90° (180° beamwidth,) and light blue is 30° off-axis. Bold horizontals delineate +/- 2 dB:


Horizontal:

attachment.php


Vertical:

attachment.php


Oblique:

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Footnote: Interestingly, I thought I had plastered these all over this thread. Apparently not; I've never posted the oblique here before, even.

[Must be some other forum.... :tongue: ]

100131/2761=36.2662​
 

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Hello Zilch,

I've been a watcher on this thread mostly, but the rest of my Ewave components will be here next Wednesday. Consequently I'm getting more charged up. I did some searching of the thread, but couldn't find a posting on the impedance curve for any of the systems that have been built so far. I want to use a tube amp and am concerned about the split crossover frequency producing a peak in the impedance that might cause some anomolies with the amp. Did I miss it or should I ask whether you might post a curve for a complete system?

I'm planning to mate my Ewaves, as a first try, with some EV SP12B's since they have a bit higher sensitivity than my other options. I know they won't have a lot of bass, but if it works ok otherwise, I've got active subs that I can add. If this doesn't work out so well, I've got the ubiquitous original Advents that I can call into duty.

Thanks,
John
 
Cosmos said:
Lest I forget, I'm sure I am not alone... I would like to thank those that helped make this project more than a notion but a viable project that anyone could complete. Kuddos to Zilch, Jack, Ray, Gordon, Kegger and the many others un-named who donated their time, knowledge and art to a project. It speaks volumes about the community known as AK. At this point, I have heard only two EWG systems. Both were easily in the best sounding DIY speakers I ever heard. I suggest to anyone contemplating on whether or not it's worth it.. It is well worth it and will shake your conception of a low cost DIY speakers ability to play with the big dogs. Do it.
Click to expand...
Thank you, that's one heck of an endorsement of the project.

Not many of us have such big dogs as you for them to run with. ;)


Bauhausler said:
I'm finishing Unit 2 tomorrow for an audition for another interested potential eWaver on Weds.
Click to expand...

***Zilch konks Bauhausler with a fried egg tweeter....***​

You're gonna hold us all in suspense for ANOTHER day here?
attachment.php
 
nerdorama said:
I did some searching of the thread, but couldn't find a posting on the impedance curve for any of the systems that have been built so far.
Click to expand...
I ran them on the individual drivers early on, but I'm embarassed to say, never on a complete system.

Here's D220Ti on E'Waveguide w/LE14A and standard E'Wave XO. Impedance, red, phase, blue:

attachment.php

Is that "tube friendly" enough?

Minimum impedance is 6.72 Ohms at 125 Hz.

Pop Quiz: Where are Wiredbecker's most excellent C36 LE14A cabs tuned?

How do we know?
 

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Jeepers, I'll get to it, OK?
I had to go out of town on family business yesterday.
Today I'm occupied at my making-a-living work. Tomorrow is for hobbies.
 
Hey John, the SP12B can go fairly deep if they are in the right cabs. They need a lot of volume in the box to work as built. Cheers.
 
Thanks DJ,
I've checked them in WinISD and they DO need a rather large box for full range bass. Mine are in some smallish boxes with slot vents. They were used by an elderly gent in my neighborhood for hearing testing years ago when he was still working. I think he had them stored for quite a few years before deciding to put them in his garage sale. They are boomy in these boxes and the top end is ragged sounding, but I think with Ewaves and an open back on the box they might work ok with about a 100Hz xover to my subs. The mid 90's sensitivity will be welcome for the tube amps.

John
 
Zilch said:
I ran them on the individual drivers early on, but I'm embarassed to say, never on a complete system.

Here's D220Ti on E'Waveguide w/LE14A and standard E'Wave XO. Impedance, red, phase, blue:

attachment.php

Minimum impedance is 6.72 Ohms at 125 Hz.

Pop Quiz: Where are Wiredbecker's most excellent C36 LE14A cabs tuned?

How do we know?
Click to expand...

About 30 hz. Impedance minimum, but I learned tha there so it could all be made up:arrow:

Oh, duh. I didn't read. But 125 seems way too high.
I passed on a $80 pair of C36 yesterday because they had some plastic woofers in them. Looked like nice cabs but I'm up to the eyes in cabinets.
 
Bauhausler said:
Oh, duh. I didn't read. But 125 seems way too high.
Click to expand...
No, you have it right, at the minimum impedance between the woofer and port resonance peaks, which makes it a trick question, because the port resonance peak (~14 Hz) is off the chart to the left. HOWEVER, there's another parameter evident in that curve which defines it even more precisely. :yes:

Bauhausler said:
I passed on a $80 pair of C36 yesterday because they had some plastic woofers in them. Looked like nice cabs but I'm up to the eyes in cabinets.
Click to expand...
The wrong legs, apparently.... ;)
 
Phase at 0 degrees?

Although, a little testing shows that not to be consistent. Coincidence?

Interesting. In my other tests, it's at 180 degrees. Product of the out of phase LE14? Maybe no relationship whatsoever...I am not particularly clear on the whole concept of phase in his regard.
 
Zilch said:
No, you have it right, at the minimum impedance between the woofer and port resonance peaks, which makes it a trick question, because the port resonance peak is off the chart to the left. HOWEVER, there's another parameter which defines it even more precisely evident in that curve. :yes:

The wrong legs, apparently.... ;)
Click to expand...

No. I meant L36, which means more sense than walking away fr4om C36.

However, at a local estate sale a friend did just get a pair of C36, with drivers of some kind, mint looking, with alu legs, for something way under 3 figures. I haven't heard what he'll do with them.

Yeah, I've seen the port resonance off the chart before. Here, IIRC.

I sold a pair of C36 loaded with D130 and 075 to a friend. He likes them a lot, but I think they'd be greatly improved by a different tweet that went lower. Gotta think how to talk him into doing some experiments on them...
This might be an opportunity to build another EWG as a separate tweeter/crossover module to drop on top.
 
Bauhausler said:
This might be an opportunity to build another EWG as a separate tweeter/crossover module to drop on top.
Click to expand...
It all fits in C36 most deliciously, though the factory baffles have to be reworked:

attachment.php

That's what I just measured for impedance.

C38, the horizontal version of the same box, I don't have a scheme for ... yet.... ;)
 
Russellc said:
My comments were directed towards those who blindly follow One persons way and defend it against all others, and then refer to the work done here as being done by "clones".
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for that clarification. I definitely agree with your position here.


Russellc said:
So unruffle your feathers, I've been around long enough to voice my opinion, and if some disagree, hey that's fine, that's what the whole project is about, a trading of opinions.
Click to expand...

They were only slightly ruffled and that was do to the way I was reading you comment. I've seen enough engineers and professionals who have been attacked by the layman simply due to miscommunication, ignorance or a dash of inferiority complex. I was afraid that your comment was coming from this place.

Also, I know that Geddes can respond in a somewhat harsh manner. The ensuing fodder is often the highlight of my day :) ... though it could easily leave behind some wounded egos.


Russellc said:
So MartinQ, are you E'waving here yet?
Click to expand...

Not yet, but I am on the verge. Being in Canada poses an extra limitation on component selection. The JBL waveguide which sells for $9.60 from the distributor turns around for $30 at the dealer. The Pyle version is not available here at all, but ordering them from MCM works out close to $20 each.

As I mentioned previously, I was considering the Eminence PSD2002 for the top as I am only a few minutes away from the Canadian distributor, it's always in stock and the price seems reasonable.

For the bottom end I'm thinking of an Eminence Delta Pro 12A. Again, reasonable price and always in stock.

One thing that that I like about Eminence is that they're made in North America, consistent, have a 7 year warranty and I can get recones / diaphragms anytime I want. The same can not be said for many other drivers, and none in this price range (that I'm aware of).

As per Geddes, here and elsewhere, I'll be doing a sealed box with a Q on the low side (0.6) and leave all my low frequency worries to the multi-sub. I'm targeting a minimum of 120db from 15Hz on up.


Russellc said:
I would be particularly interested in any work you would do concerning The B&C drivers.

Russellc
Click to expand...

Me too! :yes: I haven't ruled the DE250 out yet, but it comes down to price/performance and availability. I don't want to blow huge cash on my first waveguide system but I would prefer to buy once and be happy.

Thanks again for the clarification and your contributions. I think anything that spurs people into building and experimenting is a great thing. Thus, the E-wave project and comunity are great!

Wave on.
 
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