Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Fantastic
Great, Andyman!
Great, Andyman!
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Makes my one whipped Advent look pretty feeble. That's some fine work, Andy.
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Zilch,
Your measurement was made of the entire system, in box, with crossover? Was that done with WTester?
Let's say we're playing with port lengths, is this the type of graph we need to look at as we make changes? Or are port parameters not affecting phase and impedance as shown?
Sorry for the cluster-inquiry.
Yes, all that. WT just connected to the input terminals of the XO.
To get it precisely, you do WT vented box test to get Fh(igh) and Fl(ow), the two resonance peaks, (also tells you Fm(in), what we just used as approximation of Fb(ox),) close the ports and do Fs test to determine Fc(losed), then:
Fb = SqRt (Fh^2 + Fl^2 - Fc^2).
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Thank you Zilch.
That measurement system seems to be very useful.
Just ordered EWave parts for D210 on 6x6 mounted in-box for a nearfield monitor.
FYI: 1.5 mH iron cores as specified here are SOLD OUT. End of Dec restock date. So I went with aircores like my other EWave uses.
If I can get the etching solution, should have the boards done by next weekend, though I'm sure I'll find a way to screw it up. (Lowering expectations....) Looked into homebrewing, but mixing hydrogen peroxide with muriatic acid in my bathtub makes me worry the DEA will break down the door.
That measurement system seems to be very useful.
Just ordered EWave parts for D210 on 6x6 mounted in-box for a nearfield monitor.
FYI: 1.5 mH iron cores as specified here are SOLD OUT. End of Dec restock date. So I went with aircores like my other EWave uses.
If I can get the etching solution, should have the boards done by next weekend, though I'm sure I'll find a way to screw it up. (Lowering expectations....) Looked into homebrewing, but mixing hydrogen peroxide with muriatic acid in my bathtub makes me worry the DEA will break down the door.
As long as we're showing off JBLs, here's a couple pics of one of mine finally up and running...
Andy,
Those are just plain beautiful. Nice veneer work! bookmarking on a panel is not all that easy, and it looks like you pulled it off well.
Greyhawk17
Well-Known Member
Yowza!
Andyman,
Those are exceptionally handsome e-waves, the veneer is gorgeous!......
Hope to get a performance report soon.....Upward, Onward! Cheers, T
Andyman,
Those are exceptionally handsome e-waves, the veneer is gorgeous!......
Hope to get a performance report soon.....Upward, Onward! Cheers, T
I read some of the thread on L200-PT upgrade. It was difficult for me to follow (I'd swear I am adult ADD), but it sure sounds interesting. I think you did a LE85 with a JBL PT-F1010 waveguide. However, it looked like you started with the idea of using 2344 Horns (butt cheeks). I never saw where you changed direction and why. Also, would you change anything if you had it to do over and after a couple of years had passed?
Should that circuit change for a LE85 driver instead of the Seleniums D210Ti?
Interesting statement. What would constitute a two way playing in that league that could be a DIY? (certainly K2-S9800 etc etc but I mean DIY)
Time and phase alignment. The angled baffle on L200 moves the horn back from the woofer axis. You're really building 4430 equivalents with that approach, and I would have wanted to use the 4430 crossover, and make it a slam dunk. 2344(A) is mounted ~1" ahead of the woofer in 4430. The answer might have been as simple as inverting the polarity of the HF driver, but I wanted to try the then new PT waveguides at that point. I now want to go back and put PT-F95HFs in them sometime soon, with 2452H-SL drivers.
Probably, but I don't know for sure until I work with it again. I'd certainly start with Wayne's Pi-Speaker HF comp to develop a crossover. LE85s do not have the response peak at 2 kHz that Seleniums do, so it's virtually a given that a different highpass filter will be required. It's also vitrually a given this combination will work well.
Several LHF members have worked with H9800 clones, and I had a real one from Project May on loan to try. A couple of us have H4338s, which I have shown here, and I've built with H4348s, as well. These are all JBL consumer horns from TOTL Greg Timbers territory, virtually unobtainable. They're used with supertweeters in big $$$ JBL products, but they also play well 2-way. NLA TAD horns are contenders in this league, as well; clones are available.
There is growing interest in PT waveguides of late, in large part because they can be purchased off the shelf. RobH, an AK member, has been using PT-H1010HF for nearly two years now; they displaced 2344A in his 4430 clones. Giskard has shown a pic and performance curves of the dual-12" towers with PT-F95HF he is working on. Everybody's using quality SOTA JBL woofers and compression drivers in these, as did Duffinator in his DIY project here on AK. Any of these, as well as the TOTL JBL products, would match or better L250Ti performance, though, as you observe, there will always remain differences in sonic character between cone vs. horn/waveguide designs to debate....
Russellc
Addicted Member
Thank you very much for that clarification. I definitely agree with your position here.
They were only slightly ruffled and that was do to the way I was reading you comment. I've seen enough engineers and professionals who have been attacked by the layman simply due to miscommunication, ignorance or a dash of inferiority complex. I was afraid that your comment was coming from this place.
Also, I know that Geddes can respond in a somewhat harsh manner. The ensuing fodder is often the highlight of my day... though it could easily leave behind some wounded egos.
Not yet, but I am on the verge. Being in Canada poses an extra limitation on component selection. The JBL waveguide which sells for $9.60 from the distributor turns around for $30 at the dealer. The Pyle version is not available here at all, but ordering them from MCM works out close to $20 each.
As I mentioned previously, I was considering the Eminence PSD2002 for the top as I am only a few minutes away from the Canadian distributor, it's always in stock and the price seems reasonable.
For the bottom end I'm thinking of an Eminence Delta Pro 12A. Again, reasonable price and always in stock.
One thing that that I like about Eminence is that they're made in North America, consistent, have a 7 year warranty and I can get recones / diaphragms anytime I want. The same can not be said for many other drivers, and none in this price range (that I'm aware of).
As per Geddes, here and elsewhere, I'll be doing a sealed box with a Q on the low side (0.6) and leave all my low frequency worries to the multi-sub. I'm targeting a minimum of 120db from 15Hz on up.
Me too! :yes: I haven't ruled the DE250 out yet, but it comes down to price/performance and availability. I don't want to blow huge cash on my first waveguide system but I would prefer to buy once and be happy.
Thanks again for the clarification and your contributions. I think anything that spurs people into building and experimenting is a great thing. Thus, the E-wave project and comunity are great!
Wave on.
Glad to hear you are e'waving, there have been a few others from Canada here who faced similar problems. The Pyle substitute is said to be identical, with the exception of metal threads which are likely an improvement.
I dont think there were any bruised egos here, we got exactly the measurements we were looking for, and exactly the commentary we expected as well. Geddes is Geddes, and he is an expert with his own opinions and practices, which he is certainly entitled to.
Wayne over at PI uses the Eminence P2002 to great effect, he says its "pleasantness" is derived similarly to the Seleniums pleasantness ( on the high end), from a very gracious breakup mode from both drivers. It should be an easy conversion, Wayne has posted his charts concerning copmpensation. Wayne also uses the B&C DE 250, and raves about it.
Happy E'waving to you
Russellc
I see an occasional question here about sensitivities of JBL drivers. I found this link to have a lot of information that is useful in that regard. Can't speak to its accuracy. It lists the 123A and LE14A both at 90 dB.
Correction 123A at 90 and LE14A at 92, thanks Kegger.
http://www.thielesmall.com/database.asp?diam=Select&type=0&brand=JBL&use=0&feat=0&prod=0&form=0&order=Sensitivity
Correction 123A at 90 and LE14A at 92, thanks Kegger.
http://www.thielesmall.com/database.asp?diam=Select&type=0&brand=JBL&use=0&feat=0&prod=0&form=0&order=Sensitivity
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Russellc
Addicted Member
Russellc
Addicted Member
Russellc
Addicted Member
As long as we're showing off JBLs, here's a couple pics of one of mine finally up and running...
Finish off the second crossover, and install the components into the second cab, then do some more internal bracing on both, and these boys are done.
Excellent job! Easily one of the best looking ewaves so far.:thmbsp:
Russellc
marantzfan
...
Did y'all hear that?? That was the sound of Andyman raising the bar for the rest of us...:yes: