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What drivers should go in this kickin' 60's console??

ashnut

ashnut

mid-fi neophyte
Okay, I'm a sucker and picked up this custom console that I fell in love with. Anyway, this is the frame of my 60's system, and it's coming along okay, with respect to the components filling it. I'll let you all see if you can guess from the pics. Yes, it even passed the WAF test. I've managed to find a way to get yet another system into the house!

The reason this is in the DIY is because I'm a bit stumped regarding what to put in the speaker cabinets. No experience here. They are very well constructed, as to be a true sealed acoustic suspension cabinet. Based on the pictures and the dimensions listed, I was wondering how the folks here would proceed.

width - 16 1/4 ", Length - 17", height, 25 1/2"
mid horn slot - 2 x 10 3/4, woofer - 10 1/2"

Now the driver sizes aren't carved in stone. I suppose I could get a new piece of plywood for the fronts and cut holes for new drivers. I'd like to avoid that if possible, though. And I've no experience in designing crossovers, either.

I'll tell you that right now I've got my JBL L36's in the cabinet - near perfect fit! The drivers even line up (almost) with the cutouts. But I'll be the first to tell you that a speaker in a speaker does not sound very good. But at least it's sound for now...

So help me getting this setup sounding as good as it looks!
 

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Get AK member GordonW's attention. He rebuilt a fabulous system somewhat similar for a Dr. in the Atlanta area a couple of years ago. He should have some suggestions or can point you to the link for that work. That is one very nice looking console.

Your JPLs should work much better if you would go ahead and remove that front baffle. Any speaker that you place behind it will not work well unless the drivers match exactly.
 
Urizen,

Great idea. I saw a pair on CL about a year ago and was so intrigued that I almost got them, despite being nearly an hour away. Damn me for not being a compulsive pack rat! Would they work in this volume cabinet, or are they not that fussy regarding the enclosure volume?

Yammie,

It is a custom unit that the owner said at one time had an HK tube receiver and a Dual TT. The builder is from Phoenix, AZ.
 
Well, those cutouts in the baffle sure remind me of Klipsch KG-4's.

That is definitely a beauty, btw.
 
Hey, The oldest trick in the book, disquising a stereo system as a piece of beautiful furniture. :thmbsp: Worked for me in the kitchen. :yes: I used some older Altec 12s and a pair of Seeburg juke box horns with EV x-overs in my old Fisher Ambassador. It was just what I had around, but sounds way better than the cheapy Fisher drivers that were in it. I like Urizens idea too, and BTW, Jensen made some pretty cool coaxial 12s as well. That's one of the nicest, if not "the" nicest consoles I've ever seen. Let us know how it works out, Jay
 
Here you are... I just dug this out of my files.

You will need to order these parts from two different vendors:

From www.partsexpress.com (link through from the ad here on AK)

Dayton Classic 12" DC300-8 Parts Express 295-320 about $30.00

From http://www.martinsoundpro.com/item.asp?id=340

Martin Sound Part Numbers

2ea KSN1165a MS 1407-014 (about $15.00)
2 ea Inductor 1 mH Iron Core MS 1306-158
4 ea Cap Elect 5.6 uf (to make 11's) MS 2337-017
2 ea Cap Elect 40 uf MS 0313-017
2 ea Cap Poly 12 uf MS 0624-018
4 ea Resistor 8 ohm 15 w MS 0261-020

The 12" woofer should bolt right in.

Cover that slot with scrap ply. Insert a port 4" dia x 7.5" long. The port may be installed on the back.

You'll have to cut a round hole for the tweeter listed above.

Here's your crossover.

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(Note: The 11 uf cap is made by using two 5.6 uf caps in parallel)

This is exactly what Macaltec put in some empty Santana cabinets which are also 3.2 cubic feet, exactly the cab volume you have there.

In another thread he said, "This has got to be one of the best sounding set of speakers in my house and I've got alot of speakers but that is for another thread."

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=79659&page=2&pp=15
 
Paul,

I was hoping you'd share your speaker making knowledge. Plug-n-play is just what I need. Someday I'd like to take it to the next level and be able to do this myself.

Couple of questions: (1) I know that piezo tweeters get a bum rap, but after all, they are in the Dahlquist DQ-10, supposedly one of the best imaging speakers of the era. My question is, since I can't really adjust the speaker, is the dispersion pattern good with piezo tweeters? My experience is most of the cone tweeters I've heard tend to be beamy making speaker placement a bit more critical, and domes disperse a little better, making for a bit easier placement. My experience with piezos is 0, except for night clubs and bad wedding receptions. Is a piezo dispersion pretty good, since they will be a little above knee height when listening?

(2) The port height @ 4" dia and 7.5" long - Is the length from the inside of the mount, or the outside?

|<--------->| This is 7.5?
...|<------->| or this?
| |
| |
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| |

(3) would the port in the back still work with placement only a couple of inches from the wall? I'm thinking the front may be easier anyways...

I think I can handle this. Thanks for the input!

Observation: On parts express, there is also a Pioneer driver, A30FU20-52F, that's 95 dB 1W/1m. Might this be a better match than the Dayton you suggested?
 
The tweeter I specified will do very well for you. It has excellent dispersion.

(Edited - mount your L-pads on the back panels)

You need to block the slot above the woofer hole. At the same time you will need to mount the tweeter and port. That tweeter is 4 3/8" square.

What I would do is remove the front panel, the "baffle board", and take off the grill cloth. Extend that slot down so it is about 6" high and the same width... 10"? Then cut another piece of ply that would be 8" high x 12" wide.

On that 8" x 12" piece of ply offset to one side, cut a hole for the tweeter, which I think is about 4" dia for that tweeter. Paint the board black, and screw the tweeter to it from the front.

(Edited, ok, make that 8" x 13")

Offset to the other side install your port tube. The port can be a piece of PVC pipe 4" Inner dia x 7.5" long, or a commercial port tube.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=268-352

Now screw that piece to the inside of the baffle sealing around the edge with silicone. One screw on each corner is plenty. The silicone will do most of the support. Make sure the screws are not so long as to stick out of the front of the baffle.

Reapply the grill cloth. You may want to replace it with new. Parts Express has some very similar to the original.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=261-810

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The Dayton Paul is refering to is an excellent performing woofer in this size cabinet. I chose it because of the price and it's LF response. It matches up quite well with the KSN 1165 tweeter. I have had to turn the Lpad down just a bit to keep it from ever so slightly overunning the woofer. I'm not sure how to throw around all of those technical term used to describe the sound of a speaker. All I can sayis that my experience is nice smooth low end that digs deep and seemlessly integrates with the mid/tweet frequencies. I A/b'd them with my JBL CF 120's and quickly unhooked the JBL's and I like my JBL's more than my HPM 900's. We all know the reputation the HPM's have. Further, these speakers are one of the reasons my A7's have been pushed aside for now. They work very well with tubes too. For the money I have in them and the sound I get out of them they sit permanently next to my permanently placed Klipsch RF-3II's. I love em and think other would too if yhey had the opportunity. Gotta go listen now...... :zoom: .
 
I have had to turn the Lpad down just a bit to keep it from ever so slightly overunning the woofer.

Macaltec, what is the position of the L-pad, considering 4:30 would be (clockwise) full on, and 7:30 would be (counterclockwise) all the way off?

I could redraw the schematic for some fixed resistors to replace the L-pad to simplify things.

----

Edited

width - 16 1/4 ", Length - 17", height, 25 1/2"

Is that the inside dimensions? In that case, that is 4 cubic feet.

If so, your vent should be 4" ID x 5.5" long.

Sorry!
 
Paul C said:
Just barely noticable?
Click to expand...

Just does take a bit of the edge off and seems smoother to me. The room may have an effect as well. I feel it is a must have adjustment. Different speaker placement yeilded different settings for me.
 
So you think he should leave the L-pad in the circuit, rather than substitute some resistors for a fixed -2db cut?
 
Paul C said:
So you think he should leave the L-pad in the circuit, rather than substitute some resistors for a fixed -2db cut?
Click to expand...

I would. To many other variables to play into the actual response. That and listener preference.
 
Paul C said:
OK, then the schematic will remain as is.
Click to expand...

You could figure a switch with fixed cuts. Like some of the EPI stuff and others I'm sure. Infinitely variable is just easier and makes more sense to me. Paul you should post the sample responses you got with the Dayton woofer and pass along some more of the technicals. Maybe just link to the Piezo thread post #.
 
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