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Line array speakers, What's to like? To dislike?

thedelihaus

thedelihaus

Nocturnal transmissions
I'm intrigued, but uneducated about Line array speakers.

for those who are fans, what's to like? What are the benefits of them? their strong points? Where they shine?

for those who find fault with them, or those who like them but see the downsides to them, where do they falter?

What's to dislike?
 
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Monday I'm going to tune some PipeDreams with the company's owner. 3 pairs ! (these are 70 grand a pop).
Line arrays solve the high frequency beaming problems, giving uniform frequency response throughout the room. Line array woofers simply move more air. Famous line arrays are Infinity QLS, Beveridge Electrostatics, Magnapans, Apogee Ribbons, and column p.a. speakers in school auditoriums.
I'll post my thoughts on the 'Dreams.
 
What to like: 3dB drop with every doubling of distance from the speaker. This combined with being very efficient due to so many drivers makes them more dynamic than many horns. Big, dynamic, effortless sound with no compression and low distortion would be the benefits I would cite.

What not to like: Comb filtering effects will be an issue unless you find very small diameter high freq driver or combine a line source (long ribbon or planar speaker) with line array mids.

All in all, one of my favorite implementations of speakers.
 
Think line source instead of point source, that's what to like. Imaging to die for.

To dislike: you have to have more room (they're typically taller) and money.

The comb filtering effects will only be a problem on a badly designed pair (or something you need to worry about during the design process if you're designing them yourself).
 
Here's a pic that was taken at a Head-Fi (Headphone Fidelity) Meet at Grado Labs in Brooklyn in 2002. John Grado is standing next to a pair of prototype Grado speakers.........all the drivers are from the original flagship headphones, the HP-1. A crossover at 100 hz from a specially designed Grado subwoofer yielded a sound that was incredible. Here's what I wrote at the time:
The prototype Grado speakers were stunning. About six feet of mahogany, maybe 6 inches wide, with a vertical array of 37 headphone drivers in each. Crossed over at 100Hz to a Grado designed sub woofer, the sound was absolutely seamless, Ella Fitzgerald was alive and well in Brooklyn...........incredible!
Click to expand...

 
Nakdoc said:
Monday I'm going to tune some PipeDreams with the company's owner. 3 pairs ! (these are 70 grand a pop).
Line arrays solve the high frequency beaming problems, giving uniform frequency response throughout the room. Line array woofers simply move more air. Famous line arrays are Infinity QLS, Beveridge Electrostatics, Magnapans, Apogee Ribbons, and column p.a. speakers in school auditoriums.
I'll post my thoughts on the 'Dreams.
Click to expand...


pipeset.jpg


Nakdoc.....you're spending the day with Craig Oxford! LOL it should be a interesting time for sure.

What's already been said in this thread is all true. I have the Pipedream Reference 18 system...... 2 mid/tweeter towers with 36 tweeters and 18 mids per tower, and two woofer cabs, each cab has a pair of 18" woofers.
The mid/tweeter towers are 7 feet tall.

The system uses an active xover and must be biamped. Nothing in my room has EVER been as engaging and full sounding as these. Drum hits, vocals, brass intruments all have weight and slam. The closest I've ever been to the live event in my home. Soundstage and imaging that is totally 3D.

Yep, they were 70K new. Lots of cash for a workin' man......I bought mine used and it was still a stretch to put the funds together. I don't regret a minute of it. These are scary good!

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:
 
Comb filtering is an issue on any line array using drivers with more then about a 2.5" center to center spacing for the top octave.
 
Thanks, fellas- keep 'em coming. i'm learning a lot here. most of what I've found online refers exclusively to professional installations of massive size and proportion.
 
beemer said:
... I have the Pipedream Reference 18 system...
Click to expand...


Wow! ME TOO!!! I thought I was all by myself in the Pipedream owners club on AK, as no one else has ever mentioned them. It's nice to know I'm not entirely alone.

Are yours Hemisphere's or the rectangular ones? Do you have the balanced x-over? What amps are you using?

Most important, do you know what that little row of switches on the back of each column actually does? I bought mine used, with no owner's manual, and all I can get from the mfr is that there isn't one. :no:

tdh, sorry for the minihijack.
 
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Negotiableterms said:
Wow! ME TOO!!! I thought I was all by myself in the Pipedream owners club on AK, as no one else has ever mentioned them. It's nice to know I'm not entirely alone.

Are yours Hemisphere's or the rectangular ones? Do you have the balanced x-over? What amps are you using?

Most important, do you know what that little row of switches on the back of each column actually does? I bought mine used, with no owner's manual, and all I can get from the mfr is that there isn't one. :no:

tdh, sorry for the minihijack.
Click to expand...

And then there were two......!

Mine are an odd pair. All the Corian bracing of the hemispheres, and Corian front panels, but they are rectangular backs. This was the pair at CES 2005.
Craig Oxford told me that I have the absolute latest and best-voiced xover in the mid/tweeter towers, and all running changes were up to date.

My mid/tweeter columns have two sets of binding posts, making the system triampable. There's only one switch, which is treble cut/boost/null.
My crossover has balanced and single-ended inputs, and I run all balanced.
The system is all Levinson Reference, and I biamp with Levinson 33 monos on the woofers, and 33H monos on the mid/tweeters. I have tried tubes on the high side, and it is sweet, however I don't get the immediacy and slam of the 33H monos.

There is a newer crossover available that goes beyond the functionality of mine, when I can put the $$$ together for it I will.

The current website is: http://www.highemotionaudio.com/index.html
If you give a call they are more than helpful. I was told there are enough spares to keep these going well into the next hundred years, if need be.

Best,

Paul :thmbsp:
 
Wow, again! Those Levinsons are probably the best amps and preamp ever made, IMHO. We have one other piece in common: you're the only other T-109V owner I know.

I've talked to the mfr several times. No one knows what the row of switches does. My particular pair was made for the SF HE show of 2003. They're rosewood and won best sound of show. If you have any contacts at the mfr who might be able to answer the question, I'd be eternally grateful!
 
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Line arrays

dnewma04 said:
Comb filtering is an issue on any line array using drivers with more then about a 2.5" center to center spacing for the top octave.
Click to expand...

True... or you can use one main driver (planar) and avoid the problem... not that it's a big problem though...

Total cost of this DIY project ~~$800 / speaker

and do they ever image... you can walk around the room and the highly accurate image stays put... walking between the speakers from front to back is like walking through the image...just like if you were at a concert... highly recommended

My BG 75 line array dipoles... :music:
 

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Your BG75 is what I meant when I said:

"What not to like: Comb filtering effects will be an issue unless you find very small diameter high freq driver or combine a line source (long ribbon or planar speaker) with line array mids."

BTW, those are some nice looking, albeit unusually designed speakers. What is the with having so many driver elements when the BG can dip down low enough to match up to some nire 12s or 15s?
 
The mid woofers down low are peerless HDS 7" ~45 Hz to 800 Hz to allow xover to the bg's @ 600Hz and avoid excessive excursion @ higher levels... the dome tweeter is also peerless to augment the dipole radiation (1 front facing, 1 rear facing) and the small planar is an older panasonic "leaf" tweeter running from ~7Khz on up

Also augmented with 2 sonotube subs...
 
BG quotes something like 200 Hz to 18 KHz... but, on the advise of ThomasW and others, I chose to use 600 Hz lower and augment the high end...with the EAS100TH planar and the domes... most feel they are exquisite MID-range... and I'd tend to agree with that.... really good from maybe 500 Hz - 12 Khz or so... I have the 6KHz notch filter, but I'm not sure I can hear much of a dif. w/o it in...

They're sorta modelled after the old Infinity RSII's I've modified and use in my HT


just sounded better
 

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Once you go stack, you never go back

A properly designed array is hard to beat. There is nothing else quite like it, once you hear one you always want to hear one. Other than size constraints, a line array is all pluses in my books. The center to center diaphragm spacing is less important than the frequency range the drivers operate across - that is, crossover frequency dependence. Of course, dispersion is a function of diaphragm size and frequency.
For those not in the know, "comb filtering" in a line array loudspeaker is simply tested by running ones ear vertically down the driver line. There should be no audible difference between the individual drivers (i.e. they sound like one giant driver working in unison). The ear should not be able to distinguish where one driver is in relation to another. Comb filtering effects also vary depending on distance away from the baffle (near or far field).
Personally, I am looking forward to building mine (7 pair of Yamaha NS-500 woofers await).
 
Comb filtering can have a dramatic impact on the high freq range of a line array. Even with center to center spacing of 2.5-3", you will get pronounced high end rolloff from comb filtering.
In the case below, a single driver measures pretty close to flat out to 20khz, when added to a line array you get the following:


Kuze3201noeq.jpg


Adding EQ, you get good response but you see the comb filtering pretty obviously in the upper freq ranges.

Kuze3201weqnosmooth.jpg
 
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