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Amp hookup options

Listnnthdark

Listnnthdark

Well-Known Member
Hail audio Sages..
I have yet another battery of sophomoric audioiliterate questions ..

They are with regard to Amplifier hookup options . as mentioned {ad nauseum} in previous posts I use an nad 50 wpc reciever w Kappa 6.1 speakers ,, the speakers have low pass / high pass terminals for bi amp..The reciever has pre amp connections .. I have just closed deal on epay for an adcom gfa 545 amp.. {thanks tedrick for suggestion}..Looking foreward to trying it out ..Having ONLY used recievers in the past I feel a little embarrased to ask the most rudmentary of rudimentary questions of the audiosages... But here goes..
Dumb ? # 1. is there a way to send the combined power of reciever and additional adcom amp to speakers without removing terminal straps to bi amp?? . If so .. What goes where ?? Is that "BRIDGEING" ?..
Dumb ? # 2. Are ther particular hook up cables to be used or avoided ?
Dumb ? # 3. Is bi amping ONLY or BEST option? My Idea is to horizontal bi amp w adcom connected to low pass and nad reciever connected to high .. Does that sound right .. What are my options in adding this amp to my system?? Thanks Mucho ..
 
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Listnnthdark,
Bridging is taking a stereo amplifier and combining the two channels into one. Your receiver contains a stereo amplifier and your Adcom is a stereo amplifier. So, bridging would mean combining the receivers amplifiers into one channel and doing the same with the Adcom. So, your answer is no, you can not combine the receiver and Adcom power amplifier. Additionaly, not all stereo amplifiers are bridgeable.

As far as cables, that is an endless debate of which there are varying opinions.

If you are going to use both the receiver and Adcom, bi-amping is what you will be doing. Using the equipment that you have, bi-amping them as you described will probably give you the best results.

The big question is what are you going to use as a pre-amp for the Adcom. Is the receiver capable of serving as a pre-amp to the Adcom whilst pre-amping it's own stereo amplifier? Is an active crossover box in the equation or are you sending the full frequency range to the low pass and high pass?

Vito
 
The BIG Question ??

VITO .. Good to hear from you again and , thanks very much for your expert counsil ..I have just spent all I can spend right now ,and I hope I havent made a mistake purchasing an amp. My hope given the financial depletion situation is to hook it up as is w no additional $ spent ..THE BIG QUESTION
you pose ..."IS THE RECIEVER CAPEABLE OF SERVING AS A PREAMP TO THE ADCOM WHILST PREAMPING ITS OWN STEREO AMP "...I ASSUMED in purchasing the amp that the answer to that is yes .. BUT I DONT KNOW !!!
*********************************************************
My Question to you is .. How do I find out the answer to that question ?!?
*********************************************************
Regarding active xover .. Do I understand correctly that that is what is required to achieve A "TRUE BI AMP " where only bass frequencies are sent through low pass ?? If so { not that im prepared to spend additional $$ }but what would I need for that and what would aprox cost be ?
The real crux of this is that I want to use reciever along with adcom w nothing additional ..For now.. If I cant do that purchasing the amp will do me no good ..Again ...How do I determine the answer to the big question ... And If { God Forbid } the answer is no .. do I then need to purchase a pre amp to employ the adcom .. At that point Id almost be inclined to sell reciever on ebay its almost brand new and use the money for tuner and pre amp to use adcom alone .. But Im very skeptical of the longevity of used electonics { which is why I purchased a brand new reciever instead..}
Your Continued input is GREATLY appreciated !!!!
 
On your NAD receiver check the manual for the documentation on the PRE-OUT
I checked the NAD web site and the C720BEE uses the PRE-OUT to feed MAIN IN so you can not run another amp using these PRE-OUTs as the receivers amp will not have a PRE AMP signal feed. So bottom line is if your receiver is set up like this you can not run both amps from the Receiver. You will need to get another PRE AMP for the amp you just bought.
 
Thanks Goat67
Thats definatly NOT what I wanted to hear !! But the truth is the truth ..
Another ? for you ,or anyone though ,,. Can I do NOTHING with this amp without adding pre amp .. Can I somehow employ reciever ONLY AS PREAMP , using adcom amp as power supply alone???
What is an integrated amp ? Does that mean that it combines amp and pre amp ? would that solve my problem ..
I dont know if anyone would like to respond to a general situation question but Ill just send it out there ..
Personal opinions on what you would do with this audio dilema would be interesting ..
You have a 50 wpc reciever powering Kappa 6.1 speakers . The sound is really nice as is .. but does start to sound strained as volume increases . youve read sound of these speakers can be greatly improved by adding amplification ... so you go on ebay and buy adcom gfa 545 amp .. Only to find theres nothing you can do with it without shelling out more cash for a pre amp .
DO YOU?
#1 . Stick the adcom amp in the closet till you can afford a pre amp { which will be awhile
#2 . Sell the reciever hoping to get 300 or so to use toword apre amp and tuner and forget about bi amping .{ Thereby graduating from a 50 w reciever to a 100 w amp }
#3 .Put the adcom amp back in its box { having never even heard it!! } re sell it throgh ebay .. Drink aprox 17 odouls while listening to music ..{in the dark}
 
Listnnthdark said:
Thanks Goat67
Thats definatly NOT what I wanted to hear !! But the truth is the truth ..
Another ? for you ,or anyone though ,,. Can I do NOTHING with this amp without adding pre amp .. Can I somehow employ reciever ONLY AS PREAMP , using adcom amp as power supply alone???
What is an integrated amp ? Does that mean that it combines amp and pre amp ? would that solve my problem ..
I dont know if anyone would like to respond to a general situation question but Ill just send it out there ..
Personal opinions on what you would do with this audio dilema would be interesting ..
You have a 50 wpc reciever powering Kappa 6.1 speakers . The sound is really nice as is .. but does start to sound strained as volume increases . youve read sound of these speakers can be greatly improved by adding amplification ... so you go on ebay and buy adcom gfa 545 amp .. Only to find theres nothing you can do with it without shelling out more cash for a pre amp .
DO YOU?
#1 . Stick the adcom amp in the closet till you can afford a pre amp { which will be awhile
#2 . Sell the reciever hoping to get 300 or so to use toword apre amp and tuner and forget about bi amping .{ Thereby graduating from a 50 w reciever to a 100 w amp }
#3 .Put the adcom amp back in its box { having never even heard it!! } re sell it throgh ebay .. Drink aprox 17 odouls while listening to music ..{in the dark}
Click to expand...

Listnnthdark said:
Can I do NOTHING with this amp without adding pre amp .. Can I somehow employ reciever ONLY AS PREAMP , using adcom amp as power supply alone???
Click to expand...
No you can not use an amp without a preamp.

Let me explain your receiver is an intergrated amp it has a pre amp and an amp in it. The jacks PRE-OUT is the output of the preamp. It is sent to the input of the AMP in the jacks MAIN IN.

So you can only use the PRE-OUT Jacks to drive one amp either the amp in the receiver or the new amp you bought NOT BOTH

So to answer what you should do with the new amp I would do this
Take a cable from the PRE-OUT jacks and plug them into the new amps input jacks and now you have 100Ws for your speakers. And the 50W amp in the receiver is not used.
 
JACKPOT!!!!!!
THANK YOU SOO MUCH GOAT67 !!!!!!!!!!!!
That is exactly what I will do ... So sorry for having to occupy your audiosage minds to answer such innane questions .. I really thought I made a big mistake in spending my hard earned dough on something I cant use .. If it turns out that the adcom hooked up the way you suggest doesnt provide enough audible improvement to justify its price ,I can always consider selling or adding pre amp to bi amp in future . Havent even recieved it yet ... .But at least now I have MUCH more info ..Cant wait to try it out !!! THANKS AGAIN GOAT67!!!!!!
 
Listnnthdark,

Does the NAD have a "Pre-Out" jack and a "Main In" jack with a jumper between them?

If so, you can hook a Y-connector to each channel of the Pre-Out. Then, feed one line from the Y-connector to the NAD Main In and one to the Adcom Input. Do this for both the left and right channels.

Then, connect the NAD power amp outputs to the High section of your speakers, and the Adcom outputs to the Bass section of your speakers.

That would give you a horizontally bi-amped setup. It wouldn't be as efficient as one using an active crossover but it should work and give you a power boost over using the Adcom alone.

David
 
A Big Huge Yes !!!!!!!!

SO.. DAVID ...
A BIG HUGE YES !!!! to the Pre out / main in w jumpers question !!!!
Just to Be clear .. Using the method you describe ,, I CAN !!!! bi amp
my speakers using the recievers amp , along with adcom ,WITHOUT the addition of a pre amp ??? That would seem contrary to former posts.. or am I missing something ?? By what youve said the answer would be..
A BIG HUGE .."YES ?"
YES? !!!!! If so ... TRIPLE JACKPOTTTTT !!!!!
Thats exactly what I was hoping for !!!!!! { Sorry for all the exclamation points ..} but its hard to contain my enthusiasm !!!!!!!!!!
I could try it both ways ,just to hear how the adcom sounds on its own but what youve taught me is SO MUCH APPRECIATED ...
Youre " VARIOUS STUFF" Leaves me breathless ...
I cant believe I get to ask someone like you questions !!!!
Thats why I love AK.. THANK YOU DAVID
 
Listnnthdark said:
Youre " VARIOUS STUFF" Leaves me breathless ...
Click to expand...


Ha, Ha, I agree. It is a mind blower. I like just periodically looking at it all. I have his SAE Racks as wallpaper.

Vito
 
On the use of a Y cable from the PRE-OUT Jack on the reciever.
I was not sure that the signal would be strong enough to be split like this.
But it will not hurt to try. I would check to see how much volumn I get with out splitting the input and compare to the output after splitting.

Now if you want to BI-Amp this will require you to modify the speakers 3 way crossover to split the Tweeter and Mid from the Woofer.
Another set of binding posts will be used to accept the amp input for the woofer and the original binding posts will route the signal to the Mids and Tweeter.

Use the 100W amp for the Woofers and thw 50W amp for the Mid/Tweeter.

On the new amp do you have gain adjustment ie a volumn control? If you do not you may have issues setting the balance of power between the woofer and the mid / high

A great link to a site with a lot of info is

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm


DO NOT hook both amps to the same binding posts.
 
I hope Im not wearing out my welcome on this forum .. But I need to flesh this out a little further to understand ,,, Audioneandethal that I am ..
Maybe it was an oversight on goat67s part , but I need to be clear..
GOAT67 " NOW IF YOU WANT TO BI AMP THIS WILL REQUIRE YOU TO MODIFY THE SPEAKERS 3WAY CROSSOVER TO SPLIT THE TWEETER AND MID FROM THE WOOFER " ....My speakers come equiped { as mentioned previously} with high pass and low pass terminals which are connected by brass straps .. I am under the impression based on what David said that all I need to do { Understanding that what he recomends ..Horizontal bi amp without active xover is not A "TRUE BI AMP"} .. is to follow his prescription by removing brass straps and connecting as he described with no modificatio
n needed .... Do I understand that correctly ??? Was the Quote above an oversight on your part goat 67 ???
Also if I may pick your brains a touch further .. with reference to question as to whether "new " adcom amp has volume control ? No it does not . Tedrick seemed in an earlier thread to feel that that wouldnt be an issue ..
Is it possible based on the 100 wats going to woofer and 50 watts going to mid / tweet sections that sound will be inordinantly Bassy ???
If so should I try reversing things w adcom on top and nad on btm ??
Though my speakers only have an 8in woofer they have if any thing even a touch TOO MUCH bass for the accoustic environment theyre in,, smallish room in apt { w neighbors downstairs no less !! } as it is I have my recievers bass control set to about !0 oclock setting it flat is too bassy..

Thanks again for all this valuable info ... ANDREW
 
Andrew,

The Kappa 6.1 is designed to allow for bi-amping. You just remove the jumper strap between the high/mid and the bass binding posts and then connect your speaker wires from the different amps to the appropriate binding posts. It is VERY important you remember to remove the jumper straps, as otherwise you risk burning out one or both of the amps.

Regarding the "volume" control on the Adcom: different amps can have different amounts of gain. Both of your amps will be sent the same signal from the preamp, so, if the two amps have significantly different gains, it will be noticeable with either your highs or your bass sounding unusually loud in comparison to the other.

A gain control on the amp allows you to tailor this to get the two amps to match. If your amp does not have a gain control, there are a variety of ways to deal with this, from using an active crossover box, to using a line attenuator like Vito posted in another thread, to just trying to establish balance with your tone controls. Since you are just getting started on this, I suggest you just get them set up and see how you like the sound. You can tweak it later, once you get the basic setup working.

David
 
Regarding having to modify the speakers if you do indeed have two sets of binding posts on the back of the speaker you will not need to make any mods other than removing the jumper as previously stated.

Sorry for any confussion I may have caused.

Jerry
 
Thanks so much for your responces David and Jerry!! I now know what my options are !!! Mission Complete !! I might have purchased an amp with " VOLUME " control but I dont think itl be much of an issue... { The adcom does however have instantanious distortion allert}... if it is I can employ method of hookup bypassing nad amp as Jerry originaly suggested .. Or I can bother David again connscerning other solutions he mentioned .. I love having options .. For a moment back there I thought I had none .. and all of a sudden the sky opens up ..
Thanks again David and Jerry
By the way David ... Could you just say HI to the EPSILONS for me ????
Andrew
 
I'm very interested to hear what your impressions would be just using the Adcom amp powered by the NAD's preamp. This would be a worthwhile excercise for your own knowledge as well, such as when you do try the Bi-amp setup, you'll know if it has truly gained you anything other than more complexity and balancing issues. It may sound better with the single more powerful amp :yes: .
 
Hello Kencat ..
The only person more curious to hear my impressions than you .. is me !!
I am looking forward to it .. Trying not to have real high hopes .. I have to say given what I know about my speakers .. which isnt much .. Except that all the reviews I read on audio review .com said they REQUIRE alot of power ...The nad must be a pretty good reciever ,, it claims to be "High Current" has some kind of toroidal transformerwhosiewhatsy ,,and some kind of newfangled " Powerdrive " circustree { or something } In any case it sounds really nice on its own...I did read a review on adcom gfa 545 that said " if youve never experienced true 100 watt sound ,,{ which I have not}.. " Youre in for a real treat " { I like treats !! } I will definatly try it both ways ..If ANY of the strain I hear {not that theres alot} is improved or ANY audible improvements over the nad alone are evident { with or without the bi amp hookup} I will consider it a good investment .. If not Ill re sell the adcom and buy a whole bunch of cds ...
I will definatly post my impressions ..
* MAY THE WIND BE ALWAYS AT YOUR BAcK *.. Andrew
 
Synergy.

Sometimes these things (Amp+Speaker=Sound)can go beyond just power. There are other intangibles that can come into play it seems, that make a certain combination perfect or conversely, just doesn't work well at all. Could be the Nad just doesn't play well with the Infinities.

The Adcom may be magic, although, with it being driven by the Nad's preamp, the same voicing problem may exist if that is what it is ( I have found that preamps have their own "sound" on the same Amp and speakers, therefore are influential in their own right.). I also tryed a big Nikko Amp from a friend once.....did not go well with the Q2's at all :yuck:

You'll soon find out. I am very happy with my Adcom GFA555 II on the Quantum 2's. Bass control is very nice. Hopefully the 545 works as well for you :D
 
Just a quick response to your last post kencat..
In my last post conscerning the perfomance of my nad c720bee reciever.I did not mean to suggest that it is not a good perfomer or that it doesnt synergize well with k6.1s... Quite the contrary I was trying to give it cudos.
My point was that it must be a great reciever { which it is} because it is able to drive a speaker w a reputation of being power hungry to very impressive levels . The combination {with a good recording} sounds AMAZING
I do have a sence that the speakers are holding back and that their full potential is not being realized . Thats why I decided to go for the adcom . Im actually,,,, based on how good things sound already, quite skeptical that the adcom hooked up either way will sound ANY better. I just want to see if Im miising anything... ILL FIND OUT .. and keep you "posted"
By the way If you ever have the time , or care to. Id love to hear a little about your audio experience ... How you came to the q2s , what preceded them { what other speakers youve owned and your imressions of them....
REGARDS TO YOU ..AND THE Q2S TOO... Andrew
 
:lmao: :lmao:

Andrew,

I feel the same way about the Q2's, sometimes just feel there is more to be had. I wish I could throw two 1000 WPC monoblocks on those puppies to see what they have.

But, it'll have to wait for a lottary windfall :sigh:

Sounds like you have the audio bug. Always seeking more and better. But it is fun :yes:

Waiting to hear the review with the Adcom.
 
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