Shuguang - TJ FullMusic 300B tube listening tests

We carry 5 300B tubes, 3 from TJ FullMusic and 2 from Shuguang. I put on my audiophile hat and did some comparisons, the thread has helped many make a choice for their system and budget.

Note that I don't believe that there is a 'best' tube and the only audio tubes I don't like are dying, faulty or dead ones. The top Shuguang and TJ FullMusic 300B are as good as anything else ever made.

Another interesting note is that even better tubes can be made, but the trade off is that they won't survive a trip outside the factory door, let alone being shipped, after a lot of trial and error, we have the shipping sorted out so that DOA and premature failure is pretty low, much less than 5%, with the Shuguang Treasures at almost zero.

The GF forum will go into read only mode in the near future, if you have any comments, please post them here.

There is also links in the post to other peoples opinions.

http://grantfidelity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=281

Thanks,
Ian

A-534B - 300B tubes - listening tests, note that this post was origianlly written Jan. 2009.

Grant Fidelity A-534B 300B tube amp, MBS-1 speakers, MDVD-100 CDP, MRCA-1 interconnects, SPC-2.5 speaker cables, RPF-120 Conditioner, PC-1.5 Power Cables, 2 x BT-12 Bass Traps.

300B tubes tested:
Shuguang 300B-98 - Retail $160 USD Pair 30 day warranty at GF.
TJ Full Music 300B/n Mesh Plate - Retail $285 USD Pair 30 day warranty, $325 USD Pair with one year warranty at GF.
TJ Full Music 300B/c Carbon Plate - Retail $459 USD Pair 30 day warranty, $499 USD Pair with one year warranty at GF.
Shuguang Treasure Series 300B-Z - Retail $600 USD Pair 30 day warranty, $650 Pair USD with one year warranty at GF.
TJ Full Music 300B/se Carbon Plate - Retail $700 USD Pair 30 day warranty, $750 USD Pair with one year warranty at GF.

Other tubes tested:
TJ Full Music 12AX7 Box Plate - Retail $110 USD Pair 30 day warranty, $130 USD Pair with one year warranty at GF.
Shuguang Treasure Series CV-181Z (6SN7) - Retail $320 USD Pair 30 day warranty, $345 Pair USD with one year warranty at GF.

Started with the A-534B with stock tubes. Music used is my GF demo disk, which goes every where with me. Female vocal and jazz quartet, then male acapella quartet, then sax with jazz quartet, then full orchestra doing swing, then female pop song song. I used to be a recording engineer so I can focus on particular parts of the mix and memorize them. The tubes would all be on for 15 minutes prior to listening, amp was warmed up for an hour prior to tests.

The purpose of this review is 2 fold, to get a feel for upgrading the A-534B with tube rolls, using the tubes we now carry and to evaluate the difference between the 5 330B tubes we carry. The results are not definative and should be used just for making up your own mind. I have tried to step back from the fact that I sell these tubes and the amp to provide what differences I heard when rolling and that is what will follow, just my notes, whatever I wrote while listening.

I ran the A-534B at the same volume for all tests which was a bit louder than typical listening, probably about 90db average, 4 on the volume, in the 1 to 5 watt range. I started with the A-534 with the stock tubes and then started rolling, where the amp ended up completely retubed and then worked my way back to stock. I didn't do the recifier tube, as it just introduced too many variables for this test.

The TJ tubes had decent time on them except for the TJ Full Music 300B SE which Rachel sold to a friend, a new set seemed to sound great even after 15 hours so went with it with low hours. The Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z has only about 40 hours on them and the factory says 300 hours to burn in. The Shuguang Treasure's sound very tight new and loosen up after about 15 hours. Other Shuguang Treasure's are still improving daily with over 100 hours on them. IMO the 300B-Z has not yet shown me it's full potential at all.

First Roll - TJ Full Music 12AX7, replacing Shuguang 12AX7B in pre-amp section. My notes:
Wow, more of everything, much more bass extension, soundstage opens up, more detail and more apparrant gain. Remained in for rest of tests.

Second Roll - Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z (EL-34) Fat Boy replacing Shuguang EL-34B in driver stage. My notes:
Nice, more solid bass, darker soundstage, less distortion, less sibilance, more air. Remained in for rest of tests..

Third Roll - TJ Full Music 300B/n Mesh Plate replacing Shuguang 300B-98. My notes:
Taller soundstage, much more air, more snap on bass, deeper soundstage, more upper frequency detail, really nice and fun tube, only about $100 more a pair than the Shuguang 300B-98, make this a no brainer.

Fourth Roll - Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z Mesh Plate replacing TJ Full Music 300B/n mesh plate:
same tonal character as the TJ, less distortion, more balanced sound, really like, cannot stop listening, midrange is very sweet but accurate, more relaxed, need more time on tubes, they sound like they have much more to offer.

Side note on the Shuguang Treasure Series, the internal High Polymer Compound Carbon coating is alive. When new, the coating is not complete, after you run them for a bit the coating expands into place, very cool to observe.

Fifth Roll - TJ Full Music 300B/se Carbon Plate Special Edition replacing Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z mesh plate. My notes:
Just perfect, just right amount of air, soundstage opens up beautifully, more bass extension, sibilance gone, amazing layering in soundstage, hard to reproduce passages done with ease.

Sixth Roll - Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z Mesh Plate replacing TJ Full Music 300B/se Carbon Plate Special Edition. My notes:
Tighter sound (as in tight sounding tube), smaller soundstage, still sounds like not enough hours on tubes, soundstage more forward, but beautiful sound, again hard to stop listening, something magical in the coating, less distortion, most accurate tube, excellent imaging.

Seventh Roll - TJ Full Music 300B/c Carbon Plate Standard replacing the Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z. My notes:
Not as much air, very balanced sound, roundish bass, smaller soundstage, very smooth, really nice tube, doesn't seperate complex passages like the TJ SE or SG 300B-Z, very full sound, good for a thin sounding system.

Eighth Roll - Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z replacing TJ 300B/c. My notes:
Air is back, better defined bass, sibilance gone, really sweeet tube, better soundstage, better instrument seperation, better than the TJ 300B/c in just about everything.

Ninth Roll - TJ Full Music 300B/se Carbon Plate Special Edition replacing Shuguang Treasure 300B-Z mesh plate (again). My notes:
hotter tube, plays a bit louder, this is the best tube, nice growl in bass not noticed in other tubes, accurate imaging, so musical on sax, difficult orchestra sounds amazing, love this tube.

Tenth Roll - TJ Full Music 300B/n Mesh Plate replacing TJ Full Music 300B/se Carbon Plate Special Edition. My notes:
Aggresive sound, nice but hollow, very forward soundstage, want to turn it down. Hard to listen to after SE.

Eleventh Roll - Shuguang 300B-98 replacing TJ Full Music 300B/n Mesh Plate. My notes:
Bass round and flat sounding, imaging not as accurate, no where near as much air, nice balanced tube.

And that is it. Again it is up to you which tube fits your budget and sound. I can make basic recommendations, if money is no object, go with the TJ 300B/se or Shuguang 300B-Z, both are amazing with the edge going to the TJ 300B SE in my gear with my ears. If you are on a tight budget, spring for the TJ 300B/n mesh plate, it is an excellent budget tube. The TJ 300B/c Carbon Plate is an excellent tube, it has been reviewed in the past as being better than the expensive WE, but is not in the same league or as listenable after hearing the TJ 300B/se or Shuguang 300B-Z.

For A-534B owners, please consider getting a set of the TJ Full Music 12AX7 tubes for your amp, this will make the most improvement for the least amount of money and still retains the magic of the A-534B in stock form.

When I have 300 hours on the Shuguang 300B-Z and can get some extra sets of ears present. I'll do a shoot-out on the Shuguang 300B-Z and TJ 300B/se to see who gets top spot with the A-534B. For those that have already purchased our 300B tube offerings, would appreciate hearing your opinions.

Rest of the thread is here, including final recommendations and other opinions:
http://grantfidelity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=281

Cheers,
Ian

Interesting post, I've been wanting to try some mesh plate 300b's maybe I will give those TJ's a try!

The TJ 300B/n mesh plates are wonderful 'affordable' tubes. The amount of air in the soundstage and top end detail is spooky compared to to typical low cost solid plate tubes. If you are running really bright (beryllium, ribbons, plastic or metal horns) speakers then maybe not the right tube unless you have balanced bass. For the full-ranger and soft dome tweeter they are really nice.

Cheers,
Ian

iGrant said:

The TJ 300B/n mesh plates are wonderful 'affordable' tubes. The amount of air in the soundstage and top end detail is spooky compared to to typical low cost solid plate tubes. If you are running really bright (beryllium, ribbons, plastic or metal horns) speakers then maybe not the right tube unless you have balanced bass. For the full-ranger and soft dome tweeter they are really nice.

Cheers,
Ian

Click to expand...

I am running ribbons and I really like a detailed and brighter top end. I actually seem to enjoy the stock Chinese 300B's, but have nothing to compare it to. I think these mesh plates are the ones to try and still keep the budget in check. Thanks again for the info.

Your welcome, I've never met a 300B tube I don't like

Cheers,
Ian

I've got a pair of the TJ 300b mesh-plates in a Dared amp. Definite improvement in every category over some Electro Harmonix gold-pins I tried.

I'm very intrigued by the TJ 12AX7, and will be ordering a quad at some time in the future when I put the Dared back in service.

Tedrick said:

I've got a pair of the TJ 300b mesh-plates in a Dared amp. Definite improvement in every category over some Electro Harmonix gold-pins I tried.

I'm very intrigued by the TJ 12AX7, and will be ordering a quad at some time in the future when I put the Dared back in service.

Click to expand...

Rachel is running a special on the TJ 12AX7 as our product of the week.

Good read thread over at Audiogon on the Treasures:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1248723961

Cheers,
Ian

iGrant said:

Rachel is running a special on the TJ 12AX7 as our product of the week.

Good read thread over at Audiogon on the Treasures:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1248723961

Cheers,
Ian

Click to expand...

OOPS! I meant to say 12AU7. However, I could use a single 12AX7, but all I see on the website are pairs. Do you offer any single tubes?

Thanks

yes we do offer single tube. just split pair price to half. you need to email me at grantfidelity@gmail.com for an invoice as the site cannot do single tube transaction. sorry for the inconvenience.

We do have TJ Full Music gold pin 12AU7 in stock too.

thanks,
Rachel

Impressions of the Shuguang 300B Treasure Series

Here are some additional impressions from a new 300B Z owner, with more to follow as the tubes continue to burn in. [Associated equipment includes Cambridge Audio 840C CD player w/Dexa clock and non-standard output IC, ef86-based home made line stage, home made dual mono 300B SET amps based on Jack Elliano's DRD design, Mapleshade interconnects and speaker wire, not-yet-released newly designed vibration dissipation devices under all electronics, and very,very highly modified Quad 63's. These speakers are not normally associated with low power amps, but in this incarnation have such a wide dynamic range that they sound great. That is, they don't play very loud, but retrieve low-level detail so far below the range of a normal loudspeaker they don't need to play loud to be satisfying.]

I've been using JJ 300Bs, and all comparisons that follow are with those.

Right out of the box the tubes are agreeable, a bit modest (not polite), even, for the first 10 minutes, slightly pinched sounding. But quickly, the sound grows more, for want of a better word, lovely. In reading Ian's thoughts above, I was afraid I might find an overall euphonic warmth, but this was not the case. The initial presentation is unambitious, as if no chances were being taken, but very unstrained. No one area calls out its excellence, but the overall sense is very comfortable--it doesn't seem as if there's going to be any suffering during the break-in period.

In a very short time--less than 5 hours--the dynamics become less constrained, individual instruments become more embedded in their surrounding space, and, at about 6 hours, one is occasionally aware that a performer is standing on a floor, something the JJ's could never quite communicate (the JJ's have easily in excess of 2000 hours of playing time.) Already, for classical music, I would rather listen to these than to the JJ's. For rock, they have less "slam" (an over-used, and strange, audio review term), and less deep bass. At this stage they sound "lower-bandwidth" than the JJ's, but the flip side of that is that they also sound less edgy, less white.

They show a greater ease at resolving lower midrange, upper bass information. So for example, if a cello and the lower strings of a violin occur together, each instrument retains its harmonic structure more completely and their sound combined is richer harmonically.

I think a part of their magic--and already they're magical--is that the Shuguangs seem to track very well subtle variations in pitch and amplitute. A tremolo or vibrato has almost as much reality as a note played with no vibrato. And individual violin notes don't oscillate subtly between sour and brittle, but stay centered at their appropriate sweetness. So there's a way in which the brain relaxes, and yields to the music.

With some music, when everything was very well set up, the JJ's might seem to "pierce the veil", and a kind of hyper-acute focus momentarily coincided with true musicality. The rest of the time one always felt a slight, or more than slight, unease. The range of CD's one wanted to listen to was narrower than is already the case with the Shuguangs.

More later.

Here is my little effort using the TJ Full MUsic 300B/SE tubes and 50 Year Treasure 6SN7. The amp is not complete and has a remote PS.

Well done, should sound sweet !!

Cheers,
Ian