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old expensive cd player or new cd mid price ? accuphase vs DV9500

mati1979

mati1979

Active Member
Hi, i need choise about 2 this cds player.

Accuphase DP-11 and Marantz DV9500

for only stereo use.
i have heard a MArantz. Very good quality sound in stereo mode.
Accuphase (model 1990) can be better ?
 
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Depending on how much $$$ you want to spend?
Normally, a modern CD player, will easily outperform, an 80's or 90's unit.
That isn't a 100% written in stone though?

Steve
 
My humble opinion is that Accuphase belongs to the high-end league (like McIntosh, Krell, Audio Research and so on), and that Marantz in general does not belong to the same league. I wouldn´t discard the Accuphase just because it´s older.

http://www.accuphase.com/dp-11_e.htm
 
The "newer is better" doesn't always apply. Keep that in mind. But it depends on what older model you are looking at. My Yamaha CDX-1100 has a sound that makes me feel warmer than the sun. I couldn't get this in a modern player. They are much too clinical and uninvolving. That Accuphase is a real beauty. I'd snap that up in a heartbeat if it was available to me. It's just mind bogglingly beautiful outside and inside!
 
According to http://www.marantzphilips.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/ , the DACs in the Accuphase are 2 x PCM58P-S – SM5803AP and the laser is Sony KSS-190A. The laser in these old units is always an issue: this site reports to have some on sale at a very expensive price
http://www.lasertrader.de/index.htm?frame=sg_Lasereinheiten_HifiLaservor1995.htm?ID=628 . I am not, however, knowledgeable of the market availability of this laser pickup, but it is an issue to worry about before deciding the purchase of an old CDP.
 
slow_jazz said:
Not familiar with your models but in general an older cd player will not sound as good as a newer one.
Click to expand...
gearhound said:
Depending on how much $$$ you want to spend? Normally, a modern CD player, will easily outperform, an 80's or 90's unit. That isn't a 100% written in stone though?
Click to expand...

I'm really curious about this. "easily outperform" really catches my eye. What kind of improvements have been made in CD playback over the last decade that would make a MOTL player from today smoke a TOTL CD player from 10-15 years ago?

I take it this is also in CD player to CD player comparison. Because then there's the whole idea of a CD transport mated to an external DAC. Is the DAC the main area where the outperforming occurs with more recent technology? So... if someone has a TOTL CD player from the early 1990's and uses an external DAC instead (treating the player as just a transport), would that generally outperform a MOTL CD player?
 
I have used an external DAC with my Sony CDP-557ESD and I thought it sounded better through the player than through the DAC. To be fair, it was noticibly better. My DAC only cost me £160($250) and I know the Sony was way more back in the day. But still, the Sony beat the crap out of the modern external DAC even though I didn't expect it to(based on what i've been reading here). My DAC is now in use with my PC. My experience of modern v vintage didn't fall in line with what I've been lead to believe.
 
I could be completely wrong here but my impression is that you should defiantly spend your money in the best newish DAC you can get as there has been great improvement in this area over the past few years. As far as that actually CD player you are using its not quite as important as it mostly just reads the disc and after a certain dollar level digital out is digital out. The problem with using an older CD player as a transport is more reliability than any thing else. Belts wear out and most importantly lasers wear out break reach the end of their lifespan and many of them are unobtainium.
 
Oversimplified, there are three elements in a CDP:
  • Transport, meaning disc mechanism, laser pickup, and digital processing.
  • DAC, meaning conversion from digits to analog, and filtering.
  • Output amp, meaning analog gain stage.
Here's my own view of how they stack up in importance, keeping in mind that I'm no audio engineer:
  • Generally, newer transports are better than older ones, but higher-end often beats cheaper, even after some age. Eventually, the lasers die.
  • Generally, newer DACs are better than older ones. Age has little to do with it. There are a very few older high-end DACs that compete with new ones, but these were super-costly when new, and not cheap used.
  • Generally, higher-end output stages kill cheaper ones, regardless of age.
The 1989 Accuphase transport has to be near its end, but was a first-class unit when built. The 8x oversampling 18 bit DAC is a dinosaur, and its performance can be surpassed easily today, at much lower cost. Accuphase's output amps are first-class, and will basically last forever... which won't help when the laser dies, and can't bring the DAC up to par.

I'm a big Accuphase fan, but in this case, I'd go with the Marantz. It also reads SACD and DVD-Audio, and those are very big benefits.
 
So what makes a higher end transport better than a lower end? Ability to read damaged discs better? Built in error correction? Better processing? I was under the impression that all the transport does is read 1's and 0's then send them in order to the DAC but I could be completly wrong. Also would the output amp be the same as a preamp?
 
Interestingly enough, Gerner Eelectronics in Germany lists NOS Sony laser pickups KSS-190A at 695 euros! ( http://www.lasertrader.de/index.htm?frame=sg_Lasereinheiten_Hifi_Sony.htm?ID=499 ). I was looking into that because a local seller also offered me an Accuphase DP-11. The only reasonable cost solution would be to list all CDPs with that laser pickup and buy a used one in this list for parts.

PS: interesting reading regarding the laser issue: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ailable-optical-pickups-sonys-kss-series.html
 
Some good advice here, but I just wanted to make some further observations:

1. To be able to take advantage of an external DAC, be it a seperate device or a DAC in your AV receiver - a CDP needs to have a digital output. That's not a given with older CDPs.

2. If you use the digital output, obviously the DAC in the CDP as well at the output amp are not used. However, if you do use the analog output, the output amp can make a huge difference - in my experience as big or bigger than the DAC! The good news is that output amps cost peanuts. If you are handy with a solder iron (I am not) or have access to a tech who is, swapping out the output amp can make a dramatic difference to the sound of a CDP. I have an Onkyo DX-702 in which dr*audio changed the output amp, and the difference in sound was like night and day.

3. I understand that the laser assemblies for some older CDPs are still very readily available. For example I believe my Onkyo DX-702 uses a Sony laser that is both cheap and widely used. The mechanical part of the transport mechanism, like all mechanical machines, enjoys sensible lubrication once in a while. Obviously you don't want to use too much, or get it on the laser!
 
Most of what you just stated is generic and applies mainly to botom of the line models. Many TOTL models had digital outputs before 1990. Not everybody agrees on the advantages of an external DAC (e.g., even today Naim CDPs, among the best, do not prrovide digital outputs on purpose). Again, perhaps this makes a difference in cheap CDPs. As for the laser pickup availability, it is definitely an issue for many of the TOTL models, like the Sony ES series of the early 90´s. Of course, there are exceptions, but the OP asked about the Accuphase CD-11, a real high end CDP of the second half of the 80´s. IMHO, the statements like all CDPs are equal, that a cheap DVD player with an external DAC will do, etc, have limitations and cannot be true in general. I would rather go for a real high end unit today, the best I could afford. This thread discusses these points in detail: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=308065
 
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