Vandersteen - positioning and treble

I picked up a pair of Vandersteen 2CEs a couple of weeks ago and I've been experimenting with the positioning of the speakers and the settings for the midrange and tweeter. I read elsewhere that it was recomended that the speakers face straight ahead (not toed in) and that's the way I started. When I listened to them that way though they seemed rather dull with very little treble at all. I cranked up the tweeter control all the way and that was better but still didn't sound right to me so I started toeing them in a little and then a lot. Now they are pointing in directly at my listening position with the tweeter control all the way up and the midrange control at -1. They do sound better as far as the treble is concerned but the soundstage has shrunk in a little from the way it was with the speakers pointing straight ahead. I took some measurements with my RatShack SPL meter and it confirms what I was hearing. When I started the output was down about 6dB at 16K and over 10dB at 20K, now it's down just a few dB at 16K and 20K. I know the Vandersteens are supposed to be a little 'laid back' but this seems more like comatose to me. So are my expectations out of line or do I have a problem?

Hi,
I own a pair of the earlier 2Cs and I don't have any positioning or treble problems.

My room is rather small so I was expecting the worst when I got them.

Mine have spikes that I drilled on the bottom. They came sans stands so that's the best way to anchor them to the floor/carpet. They are also tilted upwards.

I toed them in slightly, but not directly facing the sweet spot.

Mine sound great with good dispersion and quite natural mids. They do change in sound if you move away from the sweet spot but it's not dramatic.

I keep the mid and treble controls in their neutral positions.

Perhaps your units need to be checked.

If you decide to do this, you have to obtain a hand stapler (Home Depot) in order to fasten the cloth "sock". A hassle but it can be done.

My units had bad surrounds on the mids and therefore had a slight buzz discernible on loud piano attacks. I fixed them myself and they sound fantastic right now.

Speaking of RadioShack meters, I am getting a new old stock replacement in the mail pretty soon. What test CD are you using?

I'll post my measurements later on. Right now I can tell you that while my ears are not as accurate as, say, Les Paul's I consider the sound I am getting quite extended. Soundstaging is also very good. Way better than the Paradigm Atoms I was using before.

They do have a warm character which suits my taste and electronics very well. If a recording is dull, it will sound that way. On the other hand, bells, celestas and other subtle high frequency instruments seem to appear from a black background and it's quite startling. So I guess the highs are there.

Les Paul, BTW, was capable ( I hope he still is ) of measuring the frequency response of his own hearing without any instruments. He would say something like "I am 6 dB down at 10 kHz" . Amazing!

elroymcgee picked up a pair of 2Ci's a couple of months ago. he's got his on stands, facing straight ahead. he says the difference in sound out of the sweet spot is obvious. i was over there just this past Thursday and thought the soundstage held up quite well from any point in the listening area. yes you know when you are in the sweet spot, but not in a way that i found distracting or disappointing. i find the 2Ci's lacking in nothing, a very smooth, detailed sound, that does not have any trouble going low and big. they do sound very good a low volumes but i wouldnt characterize them as having a laid back sound. he runs his with The Carver Receiver (135wpc), that i think matches very well with the Vandy's.

I do like the 2CEs and they do a lot of things right, it's just that they don't have the detail and extension on the top that I expected. They did come with the stands and spikes and I'm pretty sure I've got them tilted back the correct amount. The sweet spot isn't very big but you know when you're there and it's not hard to stay in it. The base is solid, tight and well controlled. The soundstage is wide, high, and deep. The imaging is very good, and they do have a clean natural sound that's easy to listen to and not fatiguing even at high volume. Maybe it's just that I'm used to speakers that are a little on the bright side, or maybe I've got some kind of anti-synergy going on in my system. I'm driving them with my TAN-5550 VFET and the amp and speakers both have a reputation for being a little on the warm and/or polite side so maybe it's just a case of too much of a good thing. I still want to try them with one of my receivers and maybe some different cables. I'm not giving up on them yet but I am wondering if there might not be a problem of some kind with the tweeters, L-pads, or crossovers because it doesn't seem like I should have to set them up the way they are now to get reasonably flat response at my listening position.

ByrdWyngs said:

The sweet spot isn't very big but you know when you're there and it's not hard to stay in it. The base is solid, tight and well controlled. The soundstage is wide, high, and deep. The imaging is very good, and they do have a clean natural sound that's easy to listen to and not fatiguing even at high volume.

Click to expand...

yes! this is what i am familiar with, i describe the sound as not bright but crisp (that could be the Carver). i dont notice a lack of detail in the highs or anywhere else. if by extension, you mean the ability to reach the correct sonic plane, i dont notice a lack there either. elroymcgees stands are not tilted however. maybe its a case of familiararity, where you havent quite acclimated to the Vandy sound, and the equipment hasnt quite settled in together yet. i cant explain it, but i have witnessed this phenomenon first hand where nothing changes in a system, component(s) are new to each other but fully broken in, and the sound improves, in some cases dramtically, over time.

A good test would be to run pink noise through them facing each other and out of phase. The sound should cancel out if both speakers are working correctly. If there's a problem a doubt its in both speakers.

The Vandy's are superb speakers but I do recognize they need careful placement. But the effort is well worth it, when you finally hear them singing and you get that feeling of musical satisfaction!

I've just finished listening to a wide number of LPs tonight. Alison Krauss singing "The Lucky One" is an experience to be cherished. Oh my gosh... What else can I tell ya?

I certainly hope you are able to zero-in on placement and/or your room acoustics.

Flash: forgot to mention...You may want to try Home Depot's 14 gauge extension cord (orange color) as a speaker wire. I thought it was nonsense from the glossy mags but it actually sounds great!

I have a pair of Vandersteen 2 ce's and I biwire them. I too, have a small room, power them with a Luxman R1120 or a Yamaha 1020. I find the biwiring makes a difference, and the placement in a small room makes a difference. But, once you get it where you like it, the speakers are superb. Good Luck with them.
Larry

My 2Cs are early units that are not biwirable. I bet the later versions sound even better. However, I am so happy with mine that I probably send the drivers to Richard Vandersteen for repair if they ever go bad. I'll hang on to these speakers forever!

The Vandersteen model 2 is certainly something. One look inside and you'll notice its all in the small details. 100% engineering and zero gimmicks. Not the fanciest drivers in the world but carefully placed. The boxless design really works and the staggered drivers do make a difference, IMO.

I am amazed on how good the midrange sounds on these speakers. Ambience or what they call "air" is also top notch. Musical sounds specially percussion instruments seem to hang in the air and decay very realistically.

Music, with a good amplifier, seems to jump at you with very wide dynamic range. The SX-1980 is very happy driving them.

I had never actually heard what my early Telarc/Soundstream LPs were capable of, until I tried the SX-1980/Vandersteen combo!