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VPI To Market A Direct Drive Turntable

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Not shabby for RCMs, but their TTs leave a lot to be desired from what I have read. I have the VPI 16.5 RCM and it's good, but I would not want a VPI TT. Then again I wold not want a Rega, Project or Music Hall either. That's just me though.
 
Well, although Harry didn't swear us to secrecy, I wasn't going to say anything until someone else did. I suppose if you invite 100 guys to your factory to hear unreleased and unannounced products, word is going to leak out. Besides demo'ing these new pieces, there was a huge spread of food, a live blues band, and, later in the afternoon, a long presentation by Peter Ledermann of SoundSmith with photos of cartridge internals and styli on a giant TV.

To stick to the turntable for now, it was only a prototype, basically a Classic 3 that had been modified to use the DD motor. As I understood it, this is a completely new type of motor that provides continuous turning. It drives the platter directly, without a shaft, so in a way the platter is just part of the motor. Harry told us that the wholesale cost of the motor to his factory is over $4000, so this is not going to be a cheap turntable.

They were playing the prototype DD turntable with the new arm. The arm is really beautiful, sculpted in 3-D by a computer, and features a complicated spherical-to-triangular geometry that kills almost all resonances. Fremer is correct about the manufacture, the machine that makes it costs $350K and it takes 22 hours for make each arm. However, the machine can make 12 arms at once, so it's not that bad.

Since the arm designer was running the demo, the focus was on comparing the new arm to a stock JMW-10.5. It is a drop-in replacement, and the arm switch took about a minute. The arms had identical Grado Gold cartridges. The test record was a DG recording of Beethoven's Piano Concerto #1 from a about 1980, one of the last analog DG recordings. He played the first 5 minutes, switched arms, and played it again, over and over. There was a significant improvement in bass, detail, and soundstage depth with the new arm. I suspect the differences would be much bigger with a better cartridge, but it is certainly a worthwhile upgrade.

Harry plans on using this arm in the DD turntable, which will be called the Vanquish. It is supposed to be ready by the NY audio show this April.
 
withmusic said:
Not shabby for RCMs, but their TTs leave a lot to be desired from what I have read. I have the VPI 16.5 RCM and it's good, but I would not want a VPI TT. Then again I wold not want a Rega, Project or Music Hall either. That's just me though.
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I'd completely agree about the others; I have zero interest in getting a Rega, Pro-ject or Music Hall TT, but I've found the TOTL VPI to be a nice-sounding TT. Expensive, but good. (Not sure about the lesser models; the showroom where I have heard VPI the most usually demos the best one.)

From the description of it, the new VPI DD TT should be very good, but also no doubt VERY expensive. I think I'll stick with my GT-2000, PL-1, SR-929, PLC-590, etc... for DD tables for now... at least until the VPI starts hitting the used-gear market at greatly reduced prices in 20-30 years' time. :D
 
Harry has had an interest in Direct drive turntables for a long time. He owns a Kenwood L-07D.

We have a Yamaha GT 2000 owning VPI dealer as a member here at AK. I'll be interested to hear his comparative assessment of the two turntables. Hopefully Harry will make the new arm compatible (length-wise) with the GT 2000 arm mounting requirements. :D :thmbsp:

He is not the first High-End Belt Drive manufacturer to make a Direct Drive. The other High-End manufacturers being Teres and Brinkmann. Teres reckon that their Direct Drive betters their High-End Belt Drives and also their High-End Idler Drive turntable.

This is an extremely interesting development.
 
theophile said:
He is not the first High-End Belt Drive manufacturer to make a Direct Drive. The other High-End manufacturers being Teres and Brinkmann. Teres reckon that their Direct Drive betters their High-End Belt Drives and also their High-End Idler Drive turntable.
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Did we not very recently have a member say the drive is inconsequential? :scratch2:

Marc mc
 
marc mc said:
Did we not very recently have a member say the drive is inconsequential? :scratch2:

Marc mc
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I sure did. And I stand by my statement. However, lets keep the context, shall we. It was part of a two part post. I hate quote myself, but what I said was:

To be honest, I think that any of the top tier of turntables is excellent, and one could comfortably live with any of them. At that point it becomes a matter of preference for a certain type of flavor, as it were. I can't imagine that I couldn't find happiness for the long term with, for instance, a GT-2000, LP-12, Delphi VI, SME-20, VPI Aries, TD-124, Avid Acutus, etc. All are great, with wonderfully but subtly different presentations. Likely they would all excite or bore on different days, depending on ones mood. But I do think that it is overstating the case that any one approach is the right one.
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Followed by:

In the space of a week, I heard top quality sound from DD, idler and belt drive tables. I'd have to be an idiot to have a bias against any one of them based on something as inconsequential as the drive system.
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To suggest that any ONE type of drive system can only produce good sound is audio fanboyism at it's worst.


I think the cooler part of the announcement is the new arm. That is amazing technology.
 
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marc mc said:
Did we not very recently have a member say the drive is inconsequential? :scratch2:

Marc mc
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Yes, and one said cable changes are inconsequential, too.

And CD players don't make any difference, either. After all, it's just 1s and 0s.

Besides, if you can't measure it, it doesn't exist.




[Not starting any argument/discussion here; just havin' a little fun! :D]
 
rcspkramp said:
...the company that so many in here love to hate...
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I don't think that's a fair representation of those who have voiced concerns about problems with some VPI products, especially the Traveler. I agree that some of the QA issues have been blown out of proportion, but I don't remember reading posts from people who "love to hate" VPI, much less "so many".

Their recent news is indeed interesting and I give them a lot of credit for constantly seeking ways to improve their products.
 
DougMac said:
I don't think that's a fair representation of those who have voiced concerns about problems with some VPI products, especially the Traveler. I agree that some of the QA issues have been blown out of proportion, but I don't remember reading posts from people who "love to hate" VPI, much less "so many".

Their recent news is indeed interesting and I give them a lot of credit for constantly seeking ways to improve their products.
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Since I had read these discussions in AK, I asked Harry specifically how he tested new products to see if they were ready for market. As I suspected, he was solely concerned with maximizing the sound quality of the turntable, rather than testing to see if users could find some way to screw up the setup. Matt admitted they were amazed when users tried to adjust the tracking force by turning the counterweight rather than the screw provided for this purpose. Trying to turn the counterweight destroys the bearings.

I'm a computer programmer, so I am well aware of this sort of issue. As the developer, you know how the thing is supposed to work, and you test it that way. Then the end users who have never seen it before come along and do all kinds of crazy things that you never expected, and of course everything breaks. If VPI were a larger company, or one less oriented towards sound quality and more towards marketing, they would probably do more user acceptance testing. As things are, I suggest reading the manual carefully before attempting to use a high-end product developed by audiophile companies.
 
One of the biggest reasons I bought a Classic was that I sensed an absolute love of turntables from the designer, Harry, at VPI. The Classic came about after he developed an interest in Empires and Rek o Kuts, and playing around with how to make those great tables even better. And the Classic does, indeed, have a lot in common sonically with my Empire 208, just a lot more refinement to go with it. I very highly doubt he'd ever get into a "this way is the best way" argument like we have here, as believe it or not there are actually people on this planet who think there is more than one way to do something well.

Cheers to Harry Weisfeld for trying different approaches. This would give them a belt, rim drive, and DD option.
 
DougMac said:
I don't think that's a fair representation of those who have voiced concerns about problems with some VPI products, especially the Traveler. I agree that some of the QA issues have been blown out of proportion, but I don't remember reading posts from people who "love to hate" VPI, much less "so many".

Their recent news is indeed interesting and I give them a lot of credit for constantly seeking ways to improve their products.
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It's hard to express tongue in cheek via a forum post. Sorry you took it so seriously. It wasn't meant to be negative.
 
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