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Some tidbits about capacitors

drspiff

Fisher "T" Aficionado
Mostly because I can I snapped a couple of pictures to give people some idea about the composition of a capacitor and size comparisons between new and old electrolytics:

1) This shows the composition of a foil film capacitor from mid to late 60's. You'll notice the cap is composed of a piece of film with a waxed paper separator. The leads are attached to/laid next to the foil. The foil and paper separator are one continuous length. I suspect that this cap, if unrolled, would stretch several thousands of feet if not more. The foil is about 0.0005" thick and the paper about the same. The capacitance happens due to the paper dielectric maintaining a space between the foil layers. This particular cap came out of an AR 2ax speaker crossover. It is actually a dual cap having 4uf and a 6 uf section.

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2) This is a photo of the size differences between old and new caps. The cardboard cap on the right is a 2 section unit with 2 1000uf/35v sections. On the left are 2 1000uf/35v caps. The quarter will provide scale and allow you to compare the sizes. You'll notice that the modern caps are significantly smaller that the older cap. Specifically, Excel tells me that the new cap has a volume that is 6.4% of the old cap. The question sometimes comes asking about when to recap. Notice the discolaration on the lower part of the cardboard cap. Yep, that's leakage and recapping is required. BTW this old cap is the power supply cap from a Fisher late model 400 tube receiver, so figure it is 45 to 50 years old.

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I hope these pictures help to answer some of the questions that come up about caps.
 

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I re-capped a 1968 Fender Twin-Reverb this past week. All caps had become leaky and drifted signifigantly from their ratings. Interesting, on the side of the chassis was an unused lug strip with one 100uF - 25V Mallory polycap. It may have been 100uF 38 years ago, but it's now 167uF! Time marches on...even for the unused.
 
That's another reason to stay away from those "Vinatge Cap" sales on Eprey! :thumbsdn:
Just a note.
 
I asked Terry the other day if my method of Testing Suspect Caps was good: 1) Clip out Suspect Cap; 2) Hold it above yr Head; 3) Drop in Trash Can-if it goes Dinkety Dink Dink Dink it's prolly bad; 4) Solder in New Cap; 5) Go on with Life... Terry kinda chuckled & said that's about right....<grin>
 
Sandy G, that's about what I've finally figured out, too. :D Heck, caps aren't THAT expensive, and I now think that should be done as soon as you know your pots & switches function, on a new toy. :yes: I've been saving old caps, thinking the good ones (?) were worth reusing, but that was just a bit of foolishness, in the learning process. :nono: :D
 
OK guys, I'm convinced, from reading this thread, this thing should be changed out. It went ding ding when I hit it with a screwdriver. I'd change it out too, if i knew what it is and what to replace it with.

It is an aluminum cylinder 1 3/" dia. X 3" high. Embossed on the side is:

EICO 24008 ( it is in an Eico ST40}
D (rotated 90 deg. ccw ) 40 MFD 500WVDC

^ 20 MFD 500 WVDC

CAN COM NEG

11286143 85C

Up until finding this thread, i was convinced that it is the filter cap on the rectifier tube, but now I'm not so sure what it is.

Ignorance is a terrible inconvenience.

Sam
 
Though a photo would help, perhaps it is a dual electrolytic cap. One 20uF and one 40uF each 500 working volts DC in the same can. If this is true, there should be three connected lugs, one each positive and a common negative, and such a beast could be replaced with two separate new caps.
 
skeenon said:
OK guys, I'm convinced, from reading this thread, this thing should be changed out. It went ding ding when I hit it with a screwdriver. I'd change it out too, if i knew what it is and what to replace it with.

It is an aluminum cylinder 1 3/" dia. X 3" high. Embossed on the side is:

EICO 24008 ( it is in an Eico ST40}
D (rotated 90 deg. ccw ) 40 MFD 500WVDC

^ 20 MFD 500 WVDC

CAN COM NEG

11286143 85C

Up until finding this thread, i was convinced that it is the filter cap on the rectifier tube, but now I'm not so sure what it is.

Sam

That is exactly what it is. Actually two capacitors inside of one aluminum can. On the underside you will find four tabs twisted into the chassis. They are connected to the can, and are the negative terminal.

In the middle will be a brown phenolic insulator with two lugs. If you look closely at the insulator where the lugs come out, you will see one D-shaped cutout where a lug protrudes and a triangle-shaped cutout where the other protrudes.

The lug whith the D cutout is the positive terminal of a 40 microfarad 500 volt capacitor.

The lug with the triangle cutout is the positive terminal of a 20 microfarad 500 volt capacitor.

If there is room under the chassis, the easiest thing to do is to leave the can in place, mount a tie-point terminal strip under the chassis, and install two separate tubular capacitors under the chassis. Connect both negative terminals to the same point as the can of the existing capacitor, probably ground. Connect the positive terminal of the 40 microfarad cap to a tie point and move all of the wires and components from the old "D" terminal to it. Do the same with the 20-microfarad capacitor and the wires and components from the triangle terminal. You need to leave the old capacitor's D and triangle terminals completely disconnected from the circuit.

The common replacement capacitors are rated at 450 volts, not 500. If the measured voltage is 400 or lower, these are probably OK. To be on the safe side, use a 500 volt capacitor. Sprague/Vishay ATOM series are sold by Mouser in 500 volt ratings. They are more expensive but high quality.
 
Many thanks. I found everything just as you said it would be. There appears to be room for the replacements under the chassis.
 
One application where size does not seem to have been reduced to nearly the same extent as drspiff's thread intro can be seen in bipolar caps specified for speaker X-overs. I have been trying to find out exactly WHY this is the case for some time.
 
lorne said:
One application where size does not seem to have been reduced to nearly the same extent as drspiff's thread intro can be seen in bipolar caps specified for speaker X-overs. I have been trying to find out exactly WHY this is the case for some time.

For best sound, people are replacing non-polar electrolytics with film capacitors. These will be significantly larger because the dielectric constant of plastic (mylar, polypropylene, etc) is less than that of the chemical electrolyte.

Replacing waxed paper caps with film caps should result in a size reduction for the same ratings in terms of capacitance and voltage.
 
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