What’s causing a deep rumble?

Azimuth

Well-Known Member
Using my V15 III with a Jico HE stylus, there was a deep and growing bass rumble. When I used the low filter it got worse. I replaced the stylus with a generic E version and it was fine. What would cause this? Did I seat the stylus deep enough? I have had the stylus for about a year, bought on eBay, but haven’t used it much, usually with headphones, but today I used speakers. Thoughts?
 
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Although I'm a bit confused about why engaging the low filter would make it worse, it sounds very much like acoustic feedback.

I fought feedback through many different turntables, cartridges, speakers and speaker placements back in the 70's and that's why I converted to CDs as soon as they came out in the 80's.
 
Ja, what you are describing will generally fall within the realm of acoustic feedback caused by one variable or another.....the trick, sometimes, is being able to determine which one is causing the problem. Some good points have already been made, so we could really use more information about your system. Specifically, I'm like @Blast above who was confused by the engaging of the low frequency filter causing things to get worse??? Sometimes it's a little difficult to tell if pushing a button in activates or deactivates a particular feature, so is there a chance that you were actually deactivating it? If working properly, those filters will keep any of the culprit, subsonic frequencies from reaching the speakers and cause at least a reduction, if not cessation, of the rumble (hence, sometimes also called rumble filters). I'd give that another look first-off before crossing into the Purgatory of vinyl playback.....:eek: No, seriously, sometimes this can be a real challenge to resolve.

However, we have a good starting point if, after confirming things with the low frequency filter, things continue unchanged and that has to do with your comment about changing the stylus with the problem then being resolved. So, yeah, check to make sure the HE stylus is properly seated by all means. In my experience, the changing of a stylus-type in and of itself has not yielded the kinds of problems you are having. However, the suspension of said stylus CAN indeed alter things if, say, one is a high compliance and the other a low compliance variety. In your case, information I've found would suggest the HE compliance is 30CU while the E is 22.5. So, that's a fairly significant increase in compliance and may be the cause of your issue (as @loudnoises aptly suggests above). This is why it's so important to ensure that the arm you're using is compatible with the cartridge(stylus) type, or vice versa. If this is the case with your situation, then there's not a whole lot you can do, easily, to remedy things aside from sticking with the stylus that causes you no problems. You can, of course, go to a lot of trouble and replace your tone arm for one that is better matched with the HE, but there you are again at the gates of Purgatory.

The moral of this story just might be.......stick with the lower compliance cartridges(styli) that work with your current arrangement. Or, I understand that one can acquire a very outstanding external rumble filter like the KAB RF1, but that, in your case, will set you back about $250 clams......
 
Using my V15 III with a Jico HE stylus, there was a deep and growing bass rumble. When I used the low filter it got worse. I replaced the stylus with a generic E version and it was fine. What would cause this? Did I seat the stylus deep enough? I have had the stylus for about a year, bought on eBay, but haven’t used it much, usually with headphones, but today I used speakers. Thoughts?
What Jico HE stylus is it? The current listings for a replacement of "Jico HE" stylus for Shure V15 III are all SAS stylii.
 
Hi. The stylus is a JICO HE, bought from a Japanese seller on eBay. I use the V15 III cartridge on a Technics SL Q2, which is probably not optimal. However, I have done so for years with a generic “E” stylus with no problem. I also use a V15 IV with an LPGear HE stylus with no problems. My older EVG and new Tonar VN45E styli work well also. I have a rather large inventory of styli for the V15 III, all “E” types, including nude Black Diamond ones. I have a good collection of vintage Shure cartridges, but the two V15’s mentioned above sound best. I have not liked my vintage AT carts as much. The V15 III on a generic Technics style headshell is the lightest I have. The V15 IV on a regular Technics Headshell is heavier. I should check to see if using headphones gives the same effect as the speakers. Thanks for all the replies.
 
I should check to see if using headphones gives the same effect as the speakers. Thanks for all the replies.
I always use headphones when setting up and checking cartridges. How many different cartridge types/models have the same rumble issue?
 
So it is the Jico SAS/B (as the Jico replacement for HE says)? Can't see that Jico has a true HE stylus for the III from their website.
 
Hi. The stylus is a JICO HE, bought from a Japanese seller on eBay. I use the V15 III cartridge on a Technics SL Q2, which is probably not optimal. However, I have done so for years with a generic “E” stylus with no problem. I also use a V15 IV with an LPGear HE stylus with no problems. My older EVG and new Tonar VN45E styli work well also. I have a rather large inventory of styli for the V15 III, all “E” types, including nude Black Diamond ones. I have a good collection of vintage Shure cartridges, but the two V15’s mentioned above sound best. I have not liked my vintage AT carts as much. The V15 III on a generic Technics style headshell is the lightest I have. The V15 IV on a regular Technics Headshell is heavier. I should check to see if using headphones gives the same effect as the speakers. Thanks for all the replies.
One thing that is almost guaranteed to not be the same between brands is the compliance.

You went from generic to jico. The jico is probably much closer to the original, very high compliance v15 suspension. That arm doesn't like super high compliance (by the numbers, ymmv).
 
One thing that is almost guaranteed to not be the same between brands is the compliance.

You went from generic to jico. The jico is probably much closer to the original, very high compliance v15 suspension. That arm doesn't like super high compliance (by the numbers, ymmv).
He could check the arm/cartridge resonance with a test record. It may be too low (<8Hz).
 
The Jico SAS (given as HE) have around 22 cu compliance. Unless you have a some unit from the past. Easy to see if it is a boron or alu cantilever.
The static compliance of all v15, and all .75-1.5g shure styli, was 25cu. So that is pretty close.

What was the tracking range for your elliptical?
 
By all means, try some headphones and let us know what happens. I'd guess you will not get much, or as much of the low frequency rumble IF YOUR SPEAKERS ARE TURNED OFF but that's just a guess. On my system, much of it was transmitted through the floor and back up into the stylus via vibrations. Once I isolated the turntable properly, it was gone. However, from what you are describing it would seem more likely that a mismatch between the cartridge and the tone arm is causing the problem. Just the same, will be interesting to know what your findings are......
 
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Does the stylus happen to lower the ride height too close to the record ? If so then check if nothing is rubbing on the record like headshell wires that stick out.
Did you redo your alignment and tracking force with the new stylus ? Its always a good idea to do an alignment, dont assume the stylus tip position will match exact oem because some aftermarket stylus could have shorter or longer cantilevers. The cantilevers on some not so cheap aftermarket stylus I got from lpgear for my 881s had cantilevers that were a mile and half longer than the oem.
 
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Using my V15 III with a Jico HE stylus, there was a deep and growing bass rumble. When I used the low filter it got worse. I replaced the stylus with a generic E version and it was fine. What would cause this? Did I seat the stylus deep enough? I have had the stylus for about a year, bought on eBay, but haven’t used it much, usually with headphones, but today I used speakers. Thoughts?
You haven't explained which turntable are you using, where it is sitting in, etc.

If you want to get help, try giving the most information possible.
 
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