Which of these receivers and why?

[Milano]

I've attached the supposed specs of my Denon AVR-1610 and my HK 3375.

I have some of my own opinions already but never mind what I'm thinking, what would you guys pick if you had both of these sitting in your house, to run a turntable and a tuner?

The HK definitely sounds warmer to me and I like it. I also like the functionality of having a bass and treble knob plus the two outlets in the back to power my turntable and a set of small fans that I usually keep on top of my receivers to aid with cooling. I'm told it should handle a 4 ohm load if I wanted to since it can simultaneously handle two eight ohm loads on two different zones. I read something about a high current 42 amp power source in this.

The denon, because it can output five channels times 75 Watts at 8 ohm, makes me think it's got better power. I'm not sure if there's any truth to this. It also sounds pretty good with the art DJ PRE. I haven't set up Audyssey or any of the dynamic EQ functions because I don't have the remote... And I'm wondering if that would give it the edge eventually... Although I'm not sure I can do that because the HDMI circuitry was damaged in a power surge. I can't use it to output any video, only for audio.

I don't have the remote control for either right now, which also makes the Harman kardon easier to use.

I'm running jbl a-130s which are 6 ohm.

I know much of this is subjective and the specification seem to make them very close to one another. That's why I'm not interested in what would be best to me today. I'm curious what you guys would pick and why? Maybe you know something about the build quality or the chipsets or other things that I'm not aware of.

 

[GChief]

Didn’t look at the specs as they really do not matter in your situation. If I can listen to something in my system in my space then that is what I do to decide. Just pick what you like the sound of, not what random people on the interweb tell you to like.

Specs only help get it in the door, and that is not always a given.

 

[Milano]

Didn’t look at the specs as they really do not matter in your situation. If I can listen to something in my system in my space then that is what I do to decide. Just pick what you like the sound of, not what random people on the interweb tell you to like.

Specs only help get it in the door, and that is not always a given.

I hear you. I've already switched them back and forth three times. I'm having a real tough time deciding. They definitely sound different to me but neither one of them sounds bad.

I think what I must do is run the art DJ Pre through the Hk. I haven't done that yet. That might help me make up my mind. I don't think it's a fair comparison two different receivers two different preamps.

 

[runnin']

Here's my take, for what it's worth. The Harman is heavier than the Denon, and only has two channels. The Denon is an AVR with 5 channels and a lot of AVR stuff included, which means they have to spread the budget thinner in the amp and phono section. For this reason I'd opt for the Harman, even though it's older than the Denon.

 

[Milano]

Here's my take, for what it's worth. The Harman is heavier than the Denon, and only has two channels. The Denon is an AVR with 5 channels and a lot of AVR stuff included, which means they have to spread the budget thinner in the amp and phono section. For this reason I'd opt for the Harman, even though it's older than the Denon.

That's a good point. Typically weight means more, there's definitely truth to that. And the Denon doesn't have a phono input on that one so it definitely makes the case more for the HK

 

[David_NC]

AVR's can make fine 2-channel receivers. The issue is that many just aren't that good. Often, they were packaged with less than quality speakers (still better than most sound bars though) while others are just cheap. It seems that multi-channel soundtracks can sound fine on one setup, while stereo music reproduction can be really lacking.

Upper Denon models seem to be very nice, though. One thing I've noticed is that the heavier units with a larger / taller chassis and the door covering the controls tend to be better due to being higher models. The lower models aren't quite as tall, are much lighter, and don't have the covers. The 1610 is a lower model AVR, and the HK seems to be more of a mid-line stereo receiver.

Here's an extreme example: the 11" tall, 97 lb AVR-5805

 

[UncleAng]

My sister has an HK 3375 which she bought new with my recommendation some 15 years ago. It's a quality 2 channel product and I still recommend it. That said, also around 15 years ago I bought my daughter a Denon DRA 835r which is also a 2 channel receiver. When comparing these two I would give the nod to the Denon. I've never heard your AVR 1610 but I'll guess that, like you posted, the HK 3375 sounds better and in the end that's what really matters. That, plus it has a decent MM phono input; it's optimized for 2 channel use.

 

[Bill S]

Power is the same in stereo (2 ch) so I'd say whichever sounds better to you.

The best sounding AVR receivers were the top of the line or thereabouts, Dolby Pro Logic when they first came out. Manufacturers like Yamaha and Onkyo took an already good sounding and well built 2 channel stereo receiver and added surround sound processing and amplification for a center channel. These early 90s AV receivers often do a great job in stereo as long as the annoying effects are killed.

 

[UncleAng]

The HK definitely sounds warmer to me and I like it. I also like the functionality of having a bass and treble knob plus the two outlets in the back to power my turntable

Milano, The outlets on the back of your HK 3375 are 'switched' which means they turn off when you power down the receiver. It's always been recommended that turntables be plugged into 'un-switched' outlets; in your case something like a power bar or the same wall outlet as the receiver is plugged into

 

[Milano]

Milano, The outlets on the back of your HK 3375 are 'switched' which means they turn off when you power down the receiver. It's always been recommended that turntables be plugged into 'un-switched' outlets; in your case something like a power bar or the same wall outlet as the receiver is plugged into

I had no idea that was a consideration for most, but I guess it does make sense with idler drive tables... And automatics. And linears. Thank you for telling me. I am using a Dual 1219 on there but I always wait to hear the audible click after the arm returns and lowers to be sure the TT has switched itself off before I turn off the receiver.

I have a very tall 4-year old who knows he's not to touch that equipment without daddy present, but you never know.... So that's why I thought switched would be a good safety precaution.

I'll probably get another powerline conditioner and put that in the cabinet and plug them in separately eventually... But the wife isn't thrilled with my spending on gear this past few months so it'll need to wait a bit haha

 

[UncleAng]

I have a very tall 4-year old who knows he's not to touch that equipment without daddy present, but you never know..

I had a 6 year old visitor trash my beloved Micro Seiki LC-80W MC cart; it was in the mid 80's... that's why the TT is mounted 5' high now.

But the wife isn't thrilled with my spending on gear this past few months so it'll need to wait a bit haha

For years I kept a 'stereo' savings account that I would dump $20-$40 a month for future well researched upgrades to my system - most all my purchases were used equipment.
Spent $2000 in 1986 and $3000 in 1998... last major purchases.

I agree that our gear and love for what it does for us is important, but not as important as an annual family vacation and putting the kids through college if they deserve/wish to go.

 

[wmgwizard]

HK all the way in this situation. Its a dedicated 2channel receiver, not an AVR.

If the "spec's" really matter, most AVR's tend to rate their power with 1 channel driven at a specific frequency (1k hz) and many have some sort of signal manipulation(EQ/Crossover/DSP) and no dediacated phono input making them generally less desirable.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

AVR's can make fine 2-channel receivers. The issue is that many just aren't that good. Often, they were packaged with less than quality speakers (still better than most sound bars though) while others are just cheap. It seems that multi-channel soundtracks can sound fine on one setup, while stereo music reproduction can be really lacking.

Upper Denon models seem to be very nice, though. One thing I've noticed is that the heavier units with a larger / taller chassis and the door covering the controls tend to be better due to being higher models. The lower models aren't quite as tall, are much lighter, and don't have the covers. The 1610 is a lower model AVR, and the HK seems to be more of a mid-line stereo receiver.

Here's an extreme example: the 11" tall, 97 lb AVR-5805

99% of AVR are compromises for two channel. How many of these are optimized for music and it's nuances, few?. AVR is also more cost cut built, less reliable. Cheaper built. Movies demand a lot less than music reproduction does. I see units like these die like flies, one thunderstorm/power surge and it's a write off. Have a friend who is on his 5th Denon in 15 years. I've had the same Sansui 4000 for more than that, and spend less than $50 on getting it ready for many reliable years.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

HK all the way in this situation. Its a dedicated 2channel receiver, not an AVR.

If the "spec's" really matter, most AVR's tend to rate their power with 1 channel driven at a specific frequency (1k hz) and many have some sort of signal manipulation(EQ/Crossover/DSP) and no dediacated phono input making them generally less desirable.

Agreed. And AVR depreciate faster than last year's Luxury cars, iThingies, etc.

 

[David_NC]

99% of AVR are compromises for two channel. How many of these are optimized for music and it's nuances, few?. AVR is also more cost cut built, less reliable. Cheaper built. Movies demand a lot less than music reproduction does. I see units like these die like flies, one thunderstorm/power surge and it's a write off. Have a friend who is on his 5th Denon in 15 years. I've had the same Sansui 4000 for more than that, and spend less than $50 on getting it ready for many reliable years.

Hence why I said 'many just aren't that good'. I've never had an AVR die, nor have any of my friends who have them. Why is your friend buying a brand that lasts him, on average, 3 years? Is it due to failure, poor quality sound, general unreliability, or that his older models do not have the latest features? I'm curious about the 'die like flies' comment. I see perfectly functioning older AVR's (typically Denon or Yamaha in this area) for sale all the time, so they do obviously last a good while. It seems that some early Onkyo had issues with HDMI boards, so I will agree that there has been some unreliability with certain models, but I'd not say that AVR's, as a whole, are unreliable.
Many expect superb 2-channel reproduction from a cheap AVR. Do most of us expect the same from a cheap 2-channel receiver? I'd be happy to compare my current Denon and Yamaha receivers to cheap / BOTL receivers any day, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison. I will not say that a typical AVR is better than a high quality 2-channel receiver. I will say that AVR's can make fine 2-channel receivers, which is exactly what I said.

 

[Bill S]

will say that AVR's can make fine 2-channel receivers, which is exactly what I said

They sure can and do. The key is, get a good one. Lots of cheap AV receivers from Pioneer, Denon, marantz, ect aren't worth fixing but robust AV receivers from Yamaha, Denon, were built off their 2 channel reveivers and sound quite good in 2 ch stereo. Typically TOL or just under but they sell for pennies on the dollar today. Find a good one and enjoy.

 

[7.62]

I still have a HK 745 AVR tucked away. Absolutely destroyed anything Denon I ever had in the house. It powered a pair of Kappa 9 speakers and just sounded stunning. Anything I’ve used with it, musically it’s superior to my ears.

 

[Milano]

I noticed there's some processing with the Denon in "stereo" mode that isn't there in "direct" mode, even though I haven't configured anything in the unit and have all equalization and dynamic volume items turned off... And that turned me off. After three days with the Denon, the HK unit felt night and day. I guess I just wasn't giving them enough time. The denon is back to service doing sound from my PC and the HK will remain the stereo system until I find a great deal on a vintage unit, although I'm not looking !

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Hence why I said 'many just aren't that good'. I've never had an AVR die, nor have any of my friends who have them. Why is your friend buying a brand that lasts him, on average, 3 years? Is it due to failure, poor quality sound, general unreliability, or that his older models do not have the latest features? I'm curious about the 'die like flies' comment. I see perfectly functioning older AVR's (typically Denon or Yamaha in this area) for sale all the time, so they do obviously last a good while. It seems that some early Onkyo had issues with HDMI boards, so I will agree that there has been some unreliability with certain models, but I'd not say that AVR's, as a whole, are unreliable.
Many expect superb 2-channel reproduction from a cheap AVR. Do most of us expect the same from a cheap 2-channel receiver? I'd be happy to compare my current Denon and Yamaha receivers to cheap / BOTL receivers any day, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison. I will not say that a typical AVR is better than a high quality 2-channel receiver. I will say that AVR's can make fine 2-channel receivers, which is exactly what I said.

I have a friend, a long time Denon dealer, he has a huge pile of DEAD Denon AVR units. I see far fewer Yamahas die like this. Just to name a reliable brand of AVR. Fine 2 channel receivers, to you. For me, more like Meh 2 channel receivers. For me a nice NAD 2 channel is so much better for playing music, to name something more recent, or a nice Parasound.

 

[David_NC]

I have a friend, a long time Denon dealer, he has a huge pile of DEAD Denon AVR units. I see far fewer Yamahas die like this. Just to name a reliable brand of AVR. Fine 2 channel receivers, to you. For me, more like Meh 2 channel receivers. For me a nice NAD 2 channel is so much better for playing music, to name something more recent, or a nice Parasound.

Seriously, we're not talking high end stuff here. This is more about automatically tossing / passing by a possibly good receiver simply because it has additional amps and video switching, etc. Every AVR I've used has had a straight mode that bypasses every bit of processing and conversions. If it's a decent model, it will probably sound decent to good. I don't think anybody is suggesting that a crappy BOTL AVR is the best solution for a 2-channel system.
I picked up a Sony V333ES for temporary use almost 3 years ago. It was really cheap at GW on half-price day... I want to say maybe $25-30. I was really surprised at how good it sounded, especially for what it was. If I was actively looking for a receiver, I'd certainly consider NAD and Parasound too (for used) and Parasound for new. I have power amps from both manufacturers and really like them.