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P-mount Cartridge ranking?

R

RS-MN

Active Member
I've got a few Technics turntables with P-mounts. Which are the better cartridges of the bunch?? Most are AudioTechnica.
Some need a new Stylus. What is recommended for those?

AT AT85EP - 1 new, 2 used.
AT Z100X
AT AT91E - 2 used. One could use a new Stylus.
AT 3472P - 2 used. One could use a new Stylus.
AT DR250 - Needs a new stylus.
Grado Green? - Stylus has 2 green dots. Has 'D99' molded in the back of the cartridge.

Also, the local stereo shop is closing out on Grado Black's. I resisted buying one, but maybe I should have. How does that compare to the others?
 
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Only have experience with one p-mount turntable and cart... my Ortofon TM-14 (although not spectacular) sounds great, and does nothing wrong. My son was just listening to Daft Punk vinyl on the big rig, and loving it
 
Let us know what your budget is for this.
All of your A-T models use the same body, regardless of the model name/number printed; performance is strictly based on the stylus you install in it. Aside from getting lucky on someplace like eBay to find one of the top styli (nude elliptical or line-contact) that have been out of production for decades, you can go as low as a few tens of dollars on a current-production conical stylus (ATN81CP) or up beyond a couple hundred on one with a micro-ridge/microline diamond. Check around the various audio forums for owner comments on various p-mount options, including comparisons with Grado models. Good luck!
 
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I'd like to spend enough to get the original style or Mid-level replacement stylus for those cartridges. (Elyptical?) What style needle did they originally come with? That would probably work fine.
 
Yours all originally came with either the base (4x7) elliptical or the 0.6 mil conical. This would be the about the same as the ATN85EP and ATN81CP, and either of those would be what I'd recommend you start with. Once you've listened long enough to say "That's good enough" or "Somethin' ain't quite right", you could explore further.
 
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I had a Technics SL-7 that came with a Ortofon TM-14, sounded alright, but then put a Grado Blue P-Mount on it and it sang, would have loved to try the Gold.
 
RS-MN said:
I've got a few Technics turntables with P-mounts. Which are the better cartridges of the bunch?? Most are AudioTechnica.
Some need a new Stylus. What is recommended for those?

AT AT85EP - 1 new, 2 used.
AT Z100X
AT AT91E - 2 used. One could use a new Stylus.
AT 3472P - 2 used. One could use a new Stylus.
AT DR250 - Needs a new stylus.
Grado Green? - Stylus has 2 green dots. Has 'D99' molded in the back of the cartridge.

Also, the local stereo shop is closing out on Grado Black's. I resisted buying one, but maybe I should have. How does that compare to the others?
Click to expand...

The Grado is perhaps your best choice. You can upgrade it by fiting the Grado3 stylus.

But you haven't mentioned which turntable are you using. Fitting the Grado3 will work fine if you can adjust the tracking force to 1.75g or more.
 
flavio81 said:
The Grado is perhaps your best choice. You can upgrade it by fiting the Grado3 stylus.

But you haven't mentioned which turntable are you using. Fitting the Grado3 will work fine if you can adjust the tracking force to 1.75g or more.
Click to expand...
Tracking force is somewhat adjustable on the Linear tables I have - but a bit more difficult to measure on the Linear drive tables.

Right now the Grado Green is on a SL-5. I just bought a closeout Grado Black today for $50.

The P-mount tables I'm leaning on keeping are the SL-5 and a SL-7 - Linear drive P-mount. Trying to decide what to use with SL-7. Right now it's got an AT85EP on it.

The other turntables in my Technics P-mount current collection are:
Linear: SL-L20, SL-L25, SL-DL5 (DL5 is a new arrival this week. Has an AT112EP on it.)
Tone arm style: SL-BD22, SL-DD22, SL-DD33 (The DD33 was found today. Has a Shure 1200HRP and it sounds pretty good.)

Other turntables in the collection (not P-mount) are Technics, SL-23, SL-D3, Onkyo CP-1012F, Setton TS-11.
I find them, fix/service/restore...and then hang on to them way too long.
Usually I just keep what came on them if it sounds good, but I'd like to know which ones are the higher quality ones.
Is there a P-mount hierarchy list for Audio-Technica cartridges (both current models and discontinued ones?)
 
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flavio81 said:
That one is above the AT85EP (and similar), and can use all the styli as the AT-VM5XX line

The AT112EP with the VMN40ML stylus is essentially a p-mount AT-VM540ML. I have already tried that combination. It works.
Click to expand...

Not that it will make a difference, but the AT112EP won't have the laminated coils of the VM540ML.

I think the laminations were only used on the P-Mount cartridges that came with a nude 2x7 stylus, or better.

The laminated bodies do tend to have more closely matched L/R output levels.
 
RS-MN said:
Is there a P-mount hierarchy list for Audio-Technica cartridges (both current models and discontinued ones?)
Click to expand...

Oh, well, basically there were three different Dual/V-magnet-MM T4P/P-mount families:

AT102P < 102EP < 112EP < 122EP < 122LP < 132EP < 142LP < 152LP < 152MLP

AT201P < 201EP < 211EP < 216EP < 221EP < 231LP (official hierarchy - personally I'd tend to regard 231LP < 221EP)

AT300P < 301EP < 311EP < 316EP < 331LP

With the AT102P family being the highest quality family, as the needle quality level in the AT201P family ends on ATN132EP level in form of the ATN221EP and in the AT300P family on ATN122EP level with the ATN3472LC (or at least it used to end there, until a little stock of original ATN3472ML needles turned up at LPGear quite a few years ago, which according to LPGear were leftovers of a special production run for a Japanese customer - but iirc, these only sported a bonded ML tip on straight alu cantilever and hence would range quite a good bit below the ATN152MLP). Talking about original AT needles only, mind you - 3rd party replacement/upgrade needles would be another matter.

The rest of the old ones mainly were in most cases just various renames (most of these belonging to the AT300P family, in case of which the actual hierarchy ranking is usually easily identifiable by the needle type symbol on the bottom of the needle), but sometimes also slight variations.

Well, and the current AT81CP and AT85EP could be regarded as quite equivalent to the old AT300P and AT311EP - not being renames, but variations, though.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
Oh, well, basically there were three different Dual/V-magnet-MM T4P/P-mount families:

AT102P < 102EP < 112EP < 122EP < 122LP < 132EP < 142LP < 152LP < 152MLP

AT201P < 201EP < 211EP < 216EP < 221EP < 231LP (official hierarchy - personally I'd tend to regard 231LP < 221EP)

AT300P < 301EP < 311EP < 316EP < 331LP

With the AT102P family being the highest quality family, as the needle quality level in the AT201P family ends on ATN132EP level in form of the ATN221EP and in the AT300P family on ATN122EP level with the ATN3472LC (or at least it used to end there, until a little stock of original ATN3472ML needles turned up at LPGear quite a few years ago, which according to LPGear were leftovers of a special production run for a Japanese customer - but iirc, these only sported a bonded ML tip on straight alu cantilever and hence would range quite a good bit below the ATN152MLP). Talking about original AT needles only, mind you - 3rd party replacement/upgrade needles would be another matter.

The rest of the old ones mainly were in most cases just various renames (most of these belonging to the AT300P family, in case of which the actual hierarchy ranking is usually easily identifiable by the needle type symbol on the bottom of the needle), but sometimes also slight variations.

Well, and the current AT81CP and AT85EP could be regarded as quite equivalent to the old AT300P and AT311EP - not being renames, but variations, though.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
Wow, that's such a useful summary, Manfred. I reckon it should be on a sticky under its own heading somewhere here to help those of us trying to negotiate the maze of the history of AT's P-mounts, especially given AT's scattergun approach to renaming the same or very similar cartridges for short-lived marketing reasons.
Cheers, Rob
 
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lini said:
Oh, well, basically there were three different Dual/V-magnet-MM T4P/P-mount families:

AT102P < 102EP < 112EP < 122EP < 122LP < 132EP < 142LP < 152LP < 152MLP

AT201P < 201EP < 211EP < 216EP < 221EP < 231LP (official hierarchy - personally I'd tend to regard 231LP < 221EP)

AT300P < 301EP < 311EP < 316EP < 331LP

With the AT102P family being the highest quality family, as the needle quality level in the AT201P family ends on ATN132EP level in form of the ATN221EP and in the AT300P family on ATN122EP level with the ATN3472LC (or at least it used to end there, until a little stock of original ATN3472ML needles turned up at LPGear quite a few years ago, which according to LPGear were leftovers of a special production run for a Japanese customer - but iirc, these only sported a bonded ML tip on straight alu cantilever and hence would range quite a good bit below the ATN152MLP). Talking about original AT needles only, mind you - 3rd party replacement/upgrade needles would be another matter.

The rest of the old ones mainly were in most cases just various renames (most of these belonging to the AT300P family, in case of which the actual hierarchy ranking is usually easily identifiable by the needle type symbol on the bottom of the needle), but sometimes also slight variations.

Well, and the current AT81CP and AT85EP could be regarded as quite equivalent to the old AT300P and AT311EP - not being renames, but variations, though.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
@lini , where in that ranking would you place the LS350/LT, LS450/LT, LS480/LT and LS580/LT?

Declaration of vested interest: I recently took a punt on buying what was claimed to be a NIS NIB LS580/LT. On arrival examination, it does indeed appear to be completely unused, including its original ATN122LP bonded microline stylus. I am looking forward to trying it in my Technics SL-7. I posted pix including the specifications sheet over here, where there is an old thread about the LS580/LT:
I

Post in thread 'Audio Technica LS580/LT Cartridge'

Hi all. At risk of reanimating an oldish thread, I recently bought a NOS NIB AT LS580/LT recently. It has a bonded ML tip (original ATN122LP, unused). I've attached some pictures to help illustrate the discussion earlier in this thread.

On guidance of @flavio81 , I also invested in one of the recently superseded AT VMN40ML stylus as a backup to the original ATN122LP, which hasn't been available for years (decades, probably). That should be an interesting comparison, given the ATN122LP is bonded microline and the VMN40ML is nude microline. I bet my ears can't tell the difference...

Cheers,
Rob
 
lini said:
These are renames of the AT102EP/112EP/122EP & 122LP.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
Thanks Manfred. I thought that might be the case, given the replacement styli originally specified for each cart across that "LS" range, being the ATN102EP, ATN112EP, ATN122EP and ATN122LP, respectively.
 
lini said:
These are renames of the AT102EP/112EP/122EP & 122LP.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
I have a follow-up question for you, @lini as our resident AT expert :bowdown:
I recall you wrote somewhere that in the AT102 series, only the AT132EP and above had laminated poles (forgive me if I'm misquoting you). Does that mean none of the LS series had laminated poles? And what difference does that make, anyway?
 
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