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Help-Reviving long dormant tube power amps

Blue Shadow

Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
Reviving long dormant tube power amps-finally they work

I have a pair of Lux MB-3045s that have been well cared for since about 1988 when they were last used. I have gotten the parts to effect the change from using the NLA 8045G power tube and will be rewiring the amps to run KT88s in UL mode.

Previously, (years ago) one amp flashed the 12AX7 tube, the other did not. I swapped tubes to verify and well the flash on start up stayed with the amp. I have since tested those? two tubes and they are shorted. So a little care is needed bringing these amps back. Additionally, the last time I used these amps, one could be DC balanced and biased and one could not so I stopped using them. I should have sourced tubes and bought a box of them.

I have ordered the 4x22µF/315V replacement caps for a board as one amp has chalky looking ends on these caps. I will replace them with 22µF/450V caps.

I have checked the remaining components under the chassis, resistors and capacitors, to verify their values. I did this in circuit and a few are not what is specified, but I expected this. On both amps most of the out-of-spec results are identical and the labels on the devices are correct per the OM.

One amp, and I don't know which (flashing 12AX7 or not), has an over heated section of circuit board above a couple 67KΩ-2W resistors and I am replacing all four even though three measure correct. The fourth measured 100kΩ and it was on the over heated amp.

The only other differences are a 1µF cap reading 0.84, a 0.047 cap reading 0.20 and a 4700 resistor reading 4000Ω. All of these are on the same amp with the bad 2W resistor.

Now smart money says to replace these three components, so I'll do that.

My questions are:

Since both amps have readings on the components that were the same in circuit do I need to evaluate these units out-of-circuit?

When I first power these units up with a poor man's variac, should I do it without tubes? Can the procedure be offered such as time at different bulb levels and when to put tubes in?

One final question, the information I have specifies test voltages at TP1-TP6 and here is the easy question, this voltage references to ground, right? And I can get this anywhere from the input ground to the speaker common per the schematic?

Let me know if you need pics, schematics or the x-ray view of the board with component layout.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Before going much farther, just how cooked is that circuit board? If you can post a close-up of the affected area, please do.
 
Wow, that's cooked. I'd check anything and everything that is on either side of those resistors all the way from ground to B+. I'd suggest lifting one leg of each component to do your measurements. While the resistors are out, I'd take a steel brush in a Dremel tool, and scrub away as much of that carbonization as possible. Yep, that's right, that area of the board may now be conductive, so get as much of the discoloration off the board as your can.

Check the matching amp for any sign of toasting in that area. If there is none, 2W resistors may be appropriate. If there are signs of heat, you may want to move to 3W, and mount them standing off the board a bit.
 
If there is none, 2W resistors may be appropriate. If there are signs of heat, you may want to move to 3W, and mount them standing off the board a bit.

If anything, I'd go with a TO-220 style resistor. It's a couple bucks more, but they're run a LOT cooler. And is that's not enough (for some reason) you can just mount them back-to-back and have them share a heat sink.

Turn it up to 11.
 
Wow, that's cooked. I'd check anything and everything that is on either side of those resistors all the way from ground to B+.

This suggestion is critical. No telling what caused this failure in the first place. I'd want all the suspect bits out just for peace of mind, just in case there isn't an obvious issue. The coupling caps are also on the list of trouble makers; with these there are lots of replacement options. Until you know what went wrong, I'd get after nearly everything.
cheers,
Douglas
 
I will be disconnecting one end of each component that did not measure as specified on the diagrams. But I guess I need a bit of help on this burned board issue. Attached is the pic of the board without the resistors.


I have started to Dremel the charcoal out of the way, but it looks like the board will have some holes in it. What can be used to repair that damaged area and rebuild the board?
 

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you can mix up some epoxy and fill the holes Keith, ideally you squeeze the repaired area between 2 small teflon blocks but maybe wax paper would work?
 
a couple weeks back I wasn't teaching so I went to a class I hadn't been to in awhile, basic soldering/board repair. I watched the students mix epoxy with ground up pieces of powdered board and use that for thier repairs, about a 50/50 mix, some of them did quite well.
 
Looks like I am going to be mixing epoxy and some ground up board. Now what chunk of old stereo equipment do I want to use to remove a board and grind it up? Thanks Bolly.
 
Ground up board does not sound very good for your lungs or other soft membranes. Be careful, and if you have to be grinding PCB's (which are fiberglass) try to do it outside and with as much safety gear as you can.
 
Level A safety gear just to grind away some circuit board and then to grind some up for use in the epoxy? I'll be careful, dust mask is in order but I think I can forgo taping my sleeves. Thanks for the warning, good advice.

Yes good advice. I now have the board cleaned of charred/burned area and have put epoxy with powdered circuit board into the holes. Letting it cure and will take a look and start again tomorrow. I need some new epoxy, too much car work has left my glue supply light on epoxy and heavy on JB Weld.
 
Well I have repaired the damage to the board as shown in the pictures.

One question about these repairs, the traces are intact and I have epoxied them back down and covered the non-contact areas with epoxy. Is this ok or should the traces be cut and wiring installed?
 

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Impressive repair work on that board. :thmbsp: If you are in doubt about a cap I think I would replace it. When working on an amp I look at the voltage rating, the capacitence and if its a polerized electrolitic or not. Then I look for equal or greater voltage, the same capacitance and an elecrolitic if the original was one. Beyond that I don't go crazy with type. I am probably in the minority here but that's one way to look at it.

Good luck to you

Shelly_d
 
And I colored the other side (not seen with the bottom of the amp off) back to the green. So it is looking pretty good.

I had to use the other amp to see where the dots are supposed to be, even though they follow the traces. Since I am mounting the new resistors about ½" off the board, this will be visible whenever the bottom cover is removed and the amp is upside down...not often.
 
One final thing I didn't put in my letter. When replacing caps on older equipment, the voltage ratings have changed. And so has the voltage coming into the equipment. So... buy a slightly higher voltage rating for the replacement caps.

I know newer equipment uses regulated supplies to the circuits. So the regulator takes care of the higher incoming voltage. But it is a margin of safety that I'm looking for in replacing older capacitors.
 
Well the first of these two amps is now on the dim bulb unit and warming up nicely. I'll get a listen soon and see if the tubes in it are any good. I haven't found out how to test the 6240G tubes. The 12AX7 (1), 12AU7 (1) and KT88 (2) all tested good. The 6240G is a Lux exclusive and rarely available. I have 8 and hoping 4 of them sound good.

This pic is the amp that did not get charred. The other one is a week or so behind, I need to order another cap for it. Thanks to all for the encouragement.


Edit, yes, listen to them soon, right. It has been a few years.
 

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