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Using 4 to 6 ohm tweeter with 8 ohm crossover

crazy-in-az

Uhhhh....
Let's say I wanted to buy a 3 way crossover that was designed to use all 8 ohm drivers, but I wanted to use a 4 to 6 ohm tweeter.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=260-210&scqty=2

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-408

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=275-030

How can I tweak it so that it I can use one of these tweeters and still have an 8 ohm load? BTW, I'm building my own speakers on a budget, so the cheaper the better! Thanks!
 
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In general, you can add a fixed resistor in series to build out a low-Z tweeter to 8R in order to match a mass-produced crossover network. You lose some tweeter efficiency when you do this, but that might not matter if you select a tweeter with higher efficiency than the other drivers and connect it through an L-Pad. If you're making your own crossover network, then just design the high-pass section to match the desired tweeter's impedance.
 
If you're on a budget, all the more reason to build your own crossover. Well, I guess sometimes they discount the premade ones a lot, but still, it's not like it's a good way to save money.
 
If you're on a budget, all the more reason to build your own crossover. Well, I guess sometimes they discount the premade ones a lot, but still, it's not like it's a good way to save money.

I would build my own, but my soldering skills are horrible. Plus I calculated the cost, and building one is more expensive in this case.

However, If I did build my own crossover, I wouldn't cross the tweeter as high as 5 khz, maybe 4 at the highest.
Is there a better crossover calculator than this one? It has some sort of fixed values that you can't change.
http://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/APCXOver/
 
In a three way the mid is real important.
I would try to base the crossover around the woofer and mid and let the tweeter take up the slack.
The lower you cross the tweeter the more sound it will produce and has a tendency to take over the output making you lose the midrange information.

If it's your first build a two way is easier and very instructive and cheaper.
 
If your using a pre built crossover, the driver efficencies should also match. For exanple: If your midrange is 91db and your woofer is 88db, then you would end up with a speaker that has a forward sounding midrange.

Depending on your budget and driver choice, companies like Madisound will sell you a custom built crossover specific to your drivers.
 
crazy-in-az:

Building out the impedance of a 4 to 6 ohm tweeter to match an 8 ohm crossover is the easy part. You also have to match the levels if you are putting together your own speaker system. Also the resistor must be capable of handling the power you put through it.

For example, a 6 ohm tweeter with a 2 ohm resistor will have its output reduced by 1.25 dB, a 5 ohm tweeter with a 3 ohm resistor will have its output reduced by 2.1 dB. To properly build your speaker these losses will have to be taken into account.

Shelly_D
 
crazy-in-az:

a 5 ohm tweeter with a 3 ohm resistor will have its output reduced by 2.1 dB. To properly build your speaker these losses will have to be taken into account.

Shelly_D

Okay, that makes sense. So I should use a tweeter with about 91db spl and 5 ohm ohm impedance if the mid has 89 db spl and 8 ohm impedance. Correct?
 
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If you're gonna use the DC28F now, you could just go 2-way and save yourself a bundle (or spend the extra on a better woofer).
 
Maybe I should give a little more information.

I have a pair of Rola 10 inch woofers. They are pretty nice, but they came out of a 2 way system, and I thought they sounded like they had a hole in the midrange. I decided to build a 3 way system because I like the way a 3 way sounds better than a 2 way.
How much harder is it to build a 3 way system? I didn't think it seemed that hard, but I've never built one either.
:tresbon:
 
With that Dayton tweeter a two way crossed pretty low 2-3k range depending on the woofer, should make a good two way and fill in voids in mid.

FS on tweeter is 657hz so you could cross as low as 1300hz but better response is usually achieved at two octaves over FS. IE 2.6 - 3k.
 
How much harder is it to build a 3 way system?
I didn't think it seemed that hard, but I've never built one either.
:tresbon:

Hi,

Its easy to screw up a two and a 3 way. Using c/o calculators
is a sure recipe for not getting it right, its simply not that simple.
3 ways are far harder to get right than 2 ways, more mistakes.
Have a good read of the first few links below.

Prebuilt crossovers are a very poor choice.
Sealedback midranges are a very poor choice and
interact very badly with "standard" c/o networks.
http://zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/




Maybe I should give a little more information.

I have a pair of Rola 10 inch woofers. They are pretty nice, but they came out of a 2 way system,
and I thought they sounded like they had a hole in the midrange. I decided to build a 3 way system
because I like the way a 3 way sounds better than a 2 way.
:tresbon:

Hi,

Your flying blind with no driver specs, measurements or measuring equipment.
If you have an AV amplifier that can be wired to allow the sub out to drive
some spare channels you could build some small 2-ways and use the 10"ers
as dual subs / stands. The original 10" boxes will give you ballpark volume
and whether they should be vented or not. AV amplifier matches levels.
AV amplifier actively c/o the subs to the satellites (set to small).

e.g. http://zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html or
http://zaphaudio.com/ZMV5.html smaller box sealed.

Lots of building effort with no idea how it will turn out is not good ....

rgds, sreten.

http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy (see FAQs)
http://www.zaphaudio.com
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/FRDtools.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902124715/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/DesigningXO.htm
http://www.rjbaudio.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/20090902202231/http://geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/
http://speakerdesignworks.com/
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download.html
http://www.quarter-wave.com/
http://www.frugal-horn.com/
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/
http://www.musicanddesign.com/
 
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Hi,

Its easy to screw up a two and a 3 way. Using c/o calculators
is a sure recipe for not getting it right, its simply not that simple.
3 ways are far harder to get right than 2 ways, more mistakes.
Have a good read of the first few links below.

Prebuilt crossovers are a very poor choice.
Sealedback midranges are a very poor choice and
interact very badly with "standard" c/o networks.


Hi,

Your flying blind with no driver specs, measurements or measuring equipment.
If you have an AV amplifier that can be wired to allow the sub out to drive
some spare channels you could build some small 2-ways and use the 10"ers
as dual subs / stands. The original 10" boxes will give you ballpark volume
and whether they should be vented or not. AV amplifier matches levels.
AV amplifier actively c/o the subs to the satellites (set to small).

Lots of building effort with no idea how it will turn out is not good ....

rgds, sreten.

That's a lot of information! But that does make sense. I wouldn't mind a 2.1 system, but I don't have the right amp/receiver.

I think I'll try for a two way system first. Would a pre-built two way crossover work out okay? If not, what parts would I need for 1500 or 2000hz crossover?
 
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crazy-in-az,

The info that sreten offers is more than good. I have edited his post, below, to strip it down to what I believe are the keys:

....Using c/o calculators is a sure recipe for not getting it right, its simply not that simple.3 ways are far harder to get right than 2 ways, more mistakes....

....Prebuilt crossovers are a very poor choice....

....Your flying blind with no driver specs, measurements or measuring equipment.....

...Lots of building effort with no idea how it will turn out is not good ....


The links he provides are very good as well. I am not familiar with all of them, but the ones I are recognize are the real deal.

The fact that pre-made crossovers exist and are offered for sale leads to the incorrect assumption that putting together a good speaker is as easy as choosing either 4 or 8 ohm drivers to wire up to it. Additionally, people follow this approach all the time and often they post glowing reviews of their results, further solidifying the myth.

But if you want to design and build a DIY speaker that compares to commercial offerings the process is complex.

The first complication is that driver impedances are never exactly 4 or 8 ohms. Impedances also vary with frequency. For a given crossover slope, i.e. 6/12/24 db per octave, crossover caps and coils must be chosen to match the actual impedance of the drivers involved, not the nominal impedence (i.e, 4 or 8 ohm).

When incorrect matches are made, inevitable with pre-made crossovers, the result is either spikes or dips in the frequency response. How bad these anomalies are depends on luck basically. My first DIY speaker was a 3-way using a pre-made crossover. I thought I had carefully chosen the crossover frequencies, power ratings, etc.

But at the time I was not aware of how to measure actual speaker driver impedance. I discovered a major frequency response problem few years later when I got a professional RTA and took a look at my speakers. BTW, the speakers had never sounded right, in fact not good at all, but I was flying blind as to how to correct the problem. What I discovered with the RTA was a spike of approximately 10 db at around 1k. And 1k was not even one of the crossover points.

Another complication of good speaker design is level matching between drivers. You can not simply rely on the published spl specs. And 3-ways are much trickier than 2-ways in this regard.

I love DIY'ing and am not trying to dissuade you. But achieving a positive result will require an investment of time and effort much greater than the simple process that is often inferred by reading crossover and driver specs offered by those who sell these items.

I realize that many enthusiastic first time speaker builders would forge ahead in spite of warnings. I have done similarly myself a few times. Sometimes learning from mistakes leaves a greater impression. But I wish I had the information available to me back then that sreten has kindly offered you.
 
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