terra1
Addicted Member
I have some 1984 WG London Great Melodies classic collections that have what look like worn edges and constellation-like pinholes when held to the light.
Compact Disc - Is Now The Time To Buy?
- Thread starter Wigwam Jones
- Start date
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
Not in my experience. Please check this thread:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=178980
My own statistics (with details) was given in http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2055897&postcount=13 and include 6 roten CDs (the DG ones have been replaced by the recording company) . Since my present CD collection grew up to about 6000 since I've posted those numbers, without any new case of CD rot, I can download my rot incidence frequency to about 0.1 % (1 part in 1000).
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guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
Those are realistic figures, as I remember them at the end of 1986 in the Boston area (USA).
cd rot absolutely happens, I have had cd's turn from a "silver" color to a coppery yellow color, this is cd rot. chances are if you only own 600 CD's you may never have seen it. I have around 5000 cd's and I have about 10 of them that did this, I also had one of my early cd's (pink floyds dark side of the moon, original japanese issue) slowly develop three cracks that swent slowly from the center to the outside of the disc for no apparent reason. the disc played until one of the three cracks reached the outer edge. I also knew one person the same thing happened to. I had one early zappa cd develop "static" that sounded much like a crusted fingerprint on a piece of vinyl that wasnt there when I bought it. Sure these problems are rare, but they do happen
:lmao:
interalian
Super Member
The local branch of my public library systematically ruined all of their CDs by engraving "CPL" in 1/2" tall letters at the inner spot close to the spindle. Every CD so engraved was unplayable for the first track or two (CDs play from the inside out of course). When I pointed out the issue all I got was a blank stare since they thought they played like LPs...
Its hard to believe CD players ever cost that much.
Wigwam Jones
Caesar non supra grammati
So it's not as bad as claimed, but it does happen. Got it. Now I ask myself if I care....ummm, no. 1/2 of 1 percent? I can live with that.
Hey, I had a friend once who used to break things that were labeled 'unbreakable' because they were clearly LYING to him. OK, if that's your gig. Yes, if you drive over your Lego toys with a tank, they do indeed break, and the manufacturer has horribly, horribly, lied to us about them being unbreakable. On the other hand...get real. They're unbreakable if you step on the bloody things barefoot on your way to the bathroom in the dark hours of the night.
Do CDs last 100 years? Probably not. So what? Do you really care? I sure don't. They are effectively immortal from MY point of view - meaning I'll be dust before my CDs will. So I do not care.
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
So, you don't follow the example of the Egyptian pharaohs? It's better to bring something along for that trip.
Arkay
Lunatic Member
When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it might be a discussion of whether this would be a good time to collect actual CDs, as the 90s was a good time to collect LPs. That is, when they are seen as "old" and not much wanted, but before they become "vintage collectibles" and go up in price. I much prefer seeing the old ads in the OP --they were interesting!
CDs were introduced with a lot of advertising "hype", some of which turned out to be exaggerated. It's nice to see that at least now, 30 years later, some of the higher-resolution digital recordings are at least getting closer to what we were promised, all those years ago. I don't think it will ultimately be the discs that deliver on the promise, though: it will be ultra-high-resolution files on computer/hard-disc-based servers. Most of them will be transferred electronically (downloaded/uploaded), to save on the cost of the physical item, although they may be available in disc form, too, at a higher cost.
I wonder sometimes, too, how much and in what ways vinyl record technology would have advanced by now, if digital music hadn't come along.
Regarding ROT:
The most famous kind of rot was not on CDs, but on LaserDiscs. They're made from a "sandwich" of 2 disks, with a ring of glue around the outer edge to seal them together. For a while, some plants were using a glue for that outer ring, which contained a solvent that, over time, affected the layer in the middle which held the signal. As that layer rotted, the signal (picture and sound) deteriorated, and became unplayable. It was limited to a certain number of disks from only certain plants, and while you may encounter a laser-rot LD from time to time, they are rare today, probably because most of the discs so affected were replaced or thrown away years ago.
It IS possible to give a perfectly good LD a case of laser rot, by using the wrong kind of chemical cleaner around the outer edge of the disc, where the glue is. (Please don't ask me how I know that! :sigh: Fortunately, I learned it before cleaning any rare or valuable LDs.) It's best when cleaning LDs, NOT to work on cleaning the very outer edge, at all. To do so is to endanger the disc.
CDs, being made from "plastic" materials, CAN suffer from rot due to chemical influences, but usually such high standards of quality control were implemented (they are, after all, made in clean rooms on expensive equipment) that it's rare on a commercial CD. They are not made like LDs, and don't have the "edge glue" vulnerability.
The kind you burn yourself on a computer drive, however, are an entirely different story. They tend not to last.
One difference exists between a rotted LD and a rotted CD: once a CD (or any other digital disc like a VCD, DVD or Blu-ray disc) starts to rot, it usually becomes completely un-playable. In most cases, you cannot watch ANY of the disc, even if only a small area of it is affected. LDs, being analog, are different. Usually, you can skip over the affected portions of the disc, and watch the unaffected portions. You may even be able to "watch" a distorted picture that is partially "rotted".
Dirty and lightly scratched-up disks can usually be recovered by washing them well, applying automotive wax and letting it sit for a while, then wiping it smooth, always going from the center outwards. The wax fills in the small scratches to re-create a smooth surface, and its index of refraction and transparency is close enough to the CD material that the laser can read right through it.
If the disk is more deeply scratched, it can be buffed smooth on a purpose-made device, or even on a buffing wheel if you know the technique and have the skill, then "waxed" as described, and thus made playable.
You can also use commercial plastic cleaners/polishes/renewers, but you have to be careful, as some contain solvents that might penetrate the surface and affect the sound layer.
I don't know about a CD-2, but a GT-CD2 is definitely worth the cost of repairing. (Usually it's a nylon/plastic gear for the lid mechanism that goes on them. More durable metal after-market replacements are sometimes available from Japan.)
CDs were introduced with a lot of advertising "hype", some of which turned out to be exaggerated. It's nice to see that at least now, 30 years later, some of the higher-resolution digital recordings are at least getting closer to what we were promised, all those years ago. I don't think it will ultimately be the discs that deliver on the promise, though: it will be ultra-high-resolution files on computer/hard-disc-based servers. Most of them will be transferred electronically (downloaded/uploaded), to save on the cost of the physical item, although they may be available in disc form, too, at a higher cost.
I wonder sometimes, too, how much and in what ways vinyl record technology would have advanced by now, if digital music hadn't come along.
Regarding ROT:
The most famous kind of rot was not on CDs, but on LaserDiscs. They're made from a "sandwich" of 2 disks, with a ring of glue around the outer edge to seal them together. For a while, some plants were using a glue for that outer ring, which contained a solvent that, over time, affected the layer in the middle which held the signal. As that layer rotted, the signal (picture and sound) deteriorated, and became unplayable. It was limited to a certain number of disks from only certain plants, and while you may encounter a laser-rot LD from time to time, they are rare today, probably because most of the discs so affected were replaced or thrown away years ago.
It IS possible to give a perfectly good LD a case of laser rot, by using the wrong kind of chemical cleaner around the outer edge of the disc, where the glue is. (Please don't ask me how I know that! :sigh: Fortunately, I learned it before cleaning any rare or valuable LDs.) It's best when cleaning LDs, NOT to work on cleaning the very outer edge, at all. To do so is to endanger the disc.
CDs, being made from "plastic" materials, CAN suffer from rot due to chemical influences, but usually such high standards of quality control were implemented (they are, after all, made in clean rooms on expensive equipment) that it's rare on a commercial CD. They are not made like LDs, and don't have the "edge glue" vulnerability.
The kind you burn yourself on a computer drive, however, are an entirely different story. They tend not to last.
One difference exists between a rotted LD and a rotted CD: once a CD (or any other digital disc like a VCD, DVD or Blu-ray disc) starts to rot, it usually becomes completely un-playable. In most cases, you cannot watch ANY of the disc, even if only a small area of it is affected. LDs, being analog, are different. Usually, you can skip over the affected portions of the disc, and watch the unaffected portions. You may even be able to "watch" a distorted picture that is partially "rotted".
Dirty and lightly scratched-up disks can usually be recovered by washing them well, applying automotive wax and letting it sit for a while, then wiping it smooth, always going from the center outwards. The wax fills in the small scratches to re-create a smooth surface, and its index of refraction and transparency is close enough to the CD material that the laser can read right through it.
If the disk is more deeply scratched, it can be buffed smooth on a purpose-made device, or even on a buffing wheel if you know the technique and have the skill, then "waxed" as described, and thus made playable.
You can also use commercial plastic cleaners/polishes/renewers, but you have to be careful, as some contain solvents that might penetrate the surface and affect the sound layer.
I don't know about a CD-2, but a GT-CD2 is definitely worth the cost of repairing. (Usually it's a nylon/plastic gear for the lid mechanism that goes on them. More durable metal after-market replacements are sometimes available from Japan.)
soundboy
Super Member
Exactly. The "rotted" CDs I have were made in West Germany by PolyGram or by companies which used Philips (owner of PolyGram back in the 80s) CD production processes (such as SKC out of South Korea).
Still, with my CD collection having roughly 2,000 CDs, the number of "rotted" CDs can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
They also said you would need a sealed room, something like an aircraft to listen to them properly. There was lots of crazy things said when they first came out.
Bass response down to 0 hz etc.
Wigwam Jones
Caesar non supra grammati
You know, that's a fascinating topic. The answer to that question may hinge on what one thinks of as 'collecting' vintage compact discs. Collecting as in collectible value, or collecting as in a cheap way to increase one's music library?
I personally have been having a grand old time raiding the local thrift stores for used CDs as I used to do for LPs (I still look for LPs, but they are rapidly simply not being stocked in the local thrifts; either no one is donating them, or they're being thrown out on arrival).
When paying 50 cents to a dollar for each CD, I throw caution to the winds and buy music I would not otherwise have experienced. Heck, I even bought a 98 Degrees CD the other day just so see what it was like (yuck). I also look for labels - Deutsche Gramophone, Varise Saraband, Mercury, etc.
It's a good time to be able to obtain inexpensive compact discs! Whether or not they will ever become 'collectible' is another question, but it's great for the music listener.
My brother was an early adopter of music CDs. At one point he told me he was purchasing every single title that was released. I'm sure that he slacked off as they became more ubiquitous.
I think I held off buying my first player until about 1989 or 1990.
michaelhigh
mind's eye music
oblomov
Well-Known Member
interalian
Super Member
Don't mean to "bring you down", but neither of those songs was on Discovery...