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The day the music died.....

wmgwizard said:
The 050 series Pioneer were the last of the discrete output units with the exception of the upper end of the line like the 1280 & 1980, possibly the 1080. They could not make an STK module to pass enough current to produce the high output these units were capable of.

Yamaha STK modules were very different than the run of the mill units used by other manufacturers. The 050II is a Yamaha part while the regular 050 is for Pioneer and others. The Yamaha STK module has almost twice as many components as the standard version. Yamaha spent a lot of time and effort making the module sound its best. Yamaha explored the technology but returned to discrete components after a few years. I think the R 2000 was the last of the STK Yamaha gear except for some low end HT gear.
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That's very interesting. Personally, I wish they would have stayed discreet. It is really hard to find replacements for these power packs.
 
jetblack said:
The day the music died was Feb 3, 1959. Can someone summarize the point of this thread? Brevity would be a big plus.............. :D
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Well, Feb. 3, 1959 Buddy Holly died and Gerard G. was born. A poor trade to all but my momma. :no:

What is the point?
 
Not just Buddy Holly but Ritchie Valenz and JP Richardson(The Big Bopper) were all on that plane.

Bye Bye miss American pie indeed
 
The whole vintage-versus-modern-watts debate has far more to do with the fact that until deregulation policies wrecked everything in the early 1980s, FTC amplifier power rules called for stringent testing of amplifiers to verify their claimed output power as cheating was rampant in the early days of solid state.

For those who don't know how it was done... the manufacturer would give a figure they wanted to verify. The amplifier, rock-stock, would have to withstand pre-conditioning of one hour at one-third of the stated output power (as class A/B output stages dissipate the most heat at this output level) before being driven to full power and having measurements taken. That's full output power from 20hz to 20khz, both channels driven, into 8 (and sometimes 4) ohm loads, with THD clearly stated.

These rules are no longer in effect - well, they are, but extremely watered-down. Pre-conditioning is only used on two-channel amplifiers now, and it's only one-eighth of rated power instead of one-third. Multi-channel receivers get a free pass.

The day the music died? May 28, 1980: the passing of the Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act.
 
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1TUFSS said:
The whole vintage-versus-modern-watts debate has far more to do with the fact that until deregulation policies wrecked everything in the early 1980s, FTC amplifier power rules called for stringent testing of amplifiers to verify their claimed output power as cheating was rampant in the early days of solid state.

For those who don't know how it was done... the manufacturer would give a figure they wanted to verify. The amplifier, rock-stock, would have to withstand pre-conditioning of one hour at one-third of the stated output power (as class A/B output stages dissipate the most heat at this output level) before being driven to full power and having measurements taken. That's full output power from 20hz to 20khz, both channels driven, into 8 (and sometimes 4) ohm loads, with THD clearly stated.

These rules are no longer in effect - well, they are, but extremely watered-down. Pre-conditioning is only used on two-channel amplifiers now, and it's only one-eighth of rated power instead of one-third. Multi-channel receivers get a free pass.

The day the music died? May 28, 1980: the passing of the Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act.
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Many thanks for the interesting info.That certainly explains a lot and makes sense.
 
Julian Hirsch still did preconditioning lab tests during the 90s in Stereo Review. Amps first test was always the preconditioning of 1 hour running 1/3 of the declared power into 8ohms. Amps thermal protections would of course shut down the unit several times during the 1 hour and some just cooked and died fairly quickly.

Regardless the amp shutting down they kept turning them on and continuing. The point was to learn how well protected the amp is and can it withstand the preconditioning strain without producing too high temperature dissipation and unstable performance. If the units temp protection kicked in consistently and the amp produced normal warmth and no distortion than the manufacturer declaration of specs, then its a pass.
 
wmgwizard said:
The 050 series Pioneer were the last of the discrete output units with the exception of the upper end of the line like the 1280 & 1980, possibly the 1080. They could not make an STK module to pass enough current to produce the high output these units were capable of.

Yamaha STK modules were very different than the run of the mill units used by other manufacturers. The 050II is a Yamaha part while the regular 050 is for Pioneer and others. The Yamaha STK module has almost twice as many components as the standard version. Yamaha spent a lot of time and effort making the module sound its best. Yamaha explored the technology but returned to discrete components after a few years. I think the R 2000 was the last of the STK Yamaha gear except for some low end HT gear.
Click to expand...

Various companies put in varying efforts with hybrid ICS. The suffix could mean anything to grade (example STK4171II vs STK4171V noted the difference in THD, or STK2038 STK2038II STK2038IV (1st being 16 pin quasi complementary, II being 22 pin to factor in more external variables and IV complimentary symmetry.

Those alone can vary how it sounds... More so with any of the DPP series is the driver stage (could be another IC, or discrete cascade/driver. Other factors play a lot... Xfmr and resivior caps, and of course heatsinks.

As for comparisons I often seen it the other way around aswell. Had a SU-X90 Technics that outdid a Sony in a huge way. The Sony was discrete.

A bunch of times too on technics amp vs technics amp

A good one was the SU-V4X vs Pioneer A400. The A400

Both amps did sound superb, the V4X definitely had an edge over the A400

Same goes for chip vs chip amps.... Example SU-V2X vs SU-600... Similar output, vastly different sound.

As for marantz... I just won't go there again...
 
1TUFSS said:
The whole vintage-versus-modern-watts debate has far more to do with the fact that until deregulation policies wrecked everything in the early 1980s, FTC amplifier power rules called for stringent testing of amplifiers to verify their claimed output power as cheating was rampant in the early days of solid state.

For those who don't know how it was done... the manufacturer would give a figure they wanted to verify. The amplifier, rock-stock, would have to withstand pre-conditioning of one hour at one-third of the stated output power (as class A/B output stages dissipate the most heat at this output level) before being driven to full power and having measurements taken. That's full output power from 20hz to 20khz, both channels driven, into 8 (and sometimes 4) ohm loads, with THD clearly stated.

These rules are no longer in effect - well, they are, but extremely watered-down. Pre-conditioning is only used on two-channel amplifiers now, and it's only one-eighth of rated power instead of one-third. Multi-channel receivers get a free pass.

The day the music died? May 28, 1980: the passing of the Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act.
Click to expand...

Exactly!
 
SVI2004A said:
Various companies put in varying efforts with hybrid ICS. The suffix could mean anything to grade (example STK4171II vs STK4171V noted the difference in THD, or STK2038 STK2038II STK2038IV (1st being 16 pin quasi complementary, II being 22 pin to factor in more external variables and IV complimentary symmetry.

Those alone can vary how it sounds... More so with any of the DPP series is the driver stage (could be another IC, or discrete cascade/driver. Other factors play a lot... Xfmr and resivior caps, and of course heatsinks.

As for comparisons I often seen it the other way around aswell. Had a SU-X90 Technics that outdid a Sony in a huge way. The Sony was discrete.

A bunch of times too on technics amp vs technics amp

A good one was the SU-V4X vs Pioneer A400. The A400

Both amps did sound superb, the V4X definitely had an edge over the A400

Same goes for chip vs chip amps.... Example SU-V2X vs SU-600... Similar output, vastly different sound.

As for marantz... I just won't go there again...
Click to expand...

What were the speakers in question while you compared the SU-V4X vs Pioneer A400?
 
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