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McDACs

Negotiableterms

Negotiableterms

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Can anyone tell me what the differences are between the DACs and other playback circuitry between an MCD-205 and an MS-300?

Here's why I ask: The 205 had balanced outputs, and so I expected it to sound better, but this weekend I hooked up the 205 and the 300 to my main system (together for the first time), and found that the unbalanced 300 sounds significantly better than the 205. More detail, better bass, and much more live sounding.

I got so interested that I matched the volume levels and played a dozen discs to compare, and wound up preferring the 300 every time. I found I could hear a slight difference between the 300 as disc player vs the 300 playing off its hard drive, and the HD seems better, but I couldn't tell them apart repeatedly. I used most of the albums mentioned on the "Timeless Demo" thread, so there was a wide range of music and recordings.

Somebody please explain this, or maybe just tell me my ears have finally gone...
 
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My guess is that it has less to do with the DACs, but the op-amps used. I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but the single-ended output is converted to balanced by the use of op-amps in the circuit, which may explain the difference in sound character.
 
The MS300 has a good D-to-A section. The MCD 205 is more advanced however and will have lower distortion and a higher signal to noise. Everything is relative of course and these are very small numbers we are talking about. I would say the MS300 is slightly denser sounding using its' internal DACs. I prefer the ones in my MX119 to play the MS300 on compared to the internal DACs. The MCD1000 is another step up of course.

Some feel the very act of putting the music on the hard disk effects the sound in a positive way. Beats me though. If you rip an audio disk from the 300 and bit by bit compare it to the original CD they should be a total match. Timing errors and the jitter spectrum will change of course.

The MDA1000 strips off all clocking information and re-times the signal for vanishing low jitter. This changes the sound and the bass most profoundly. The base is deeper, more detailed, yet can sound lighter There is more there, there..

Ron-C
 
Balanced vs. Unbalanced?

Ron-

Thanks! I couldn't tell that much difference between the MS-300's HD and its player. Could the difference I'm hearing arise in the C-200 preamp, between its unbalanced and balanced inputs?

You mention the MDA-1000. I've been agonizing about getting a new CDP. I'd really like to stick with Mc, but I'm having trouble with the redbook-only nature of the MDA-1000. At some later time, will the MDA-1000 and the MCD-1000 be upgradeable (by hardware, firmware or software) to be able to accept SACD/DVD-A?

You see, when I replace a part of my main system, I move the old unit into another system. So, I like to buy gear that will be useful for the long haul. Right now, I think a universal player is a good investment, and redbook only is a short-term purchase. I may turn out to be wrong, of course.

In another thread, I asked what people here thought of the Ayre C-5xe. It's a great unit, but I really want to stick with Mc. Any advice?

Thanks again!
 
DACs vs DACs

For collecting purposes, I've been looking at buying an MDA-700. Does anyone know what those sound like compared to the DACs in the more modern Mc equipment, like MS-300, MCD-205?

I've lately discovered that no two DACs sound alike, and the differences are far from subtle.

All opinions welcome!
 
The MDA700 is a fully balanced 20 bit design and sounds very good. Second to the MDA1000 I would say. They sell used between $1500 and $2500.

Ron-C
 
Tutorial?

Ron-

Thanks, again. It's amazing that different DAC technologies sound so different. A few weeks ago, I would have guessed that there was no way a 8x 20-bit DAC could sound as good as a 32x 24-bit DAC. Now, it seems that's not true, if the 20-bit unit is also using multiple DACs in differential configuration (called sigma-delta?). I also would have guessed that the MS-300 wouldn't sound as good as the MCD-205, and that the MDA-700 wouldn't even be close to the MCD-205, let alone the MDA-1000.

Do you, or anyone here, know of a plain-English explanatory text on DAC technologies? I'd really like to get some understanding of how this stuff really works.

Again, thanks!
 
The MDA700 uses 4 Burr-Brown 20 bit dacs Per Channel. These are running fast for a combined output of 354 KHz. The word length is not modified in length as in the MDA1000 but the decoding is very good.

Ron-C
 
The MX119 DAC is very good. I have not compared these though. The 119 DAC is not balanced as the MDA700 is but it is a later 24/192 design.

Ron-C
 
Ron-c, I heard a MCD1000/MDA1000 setup a few weeks ago at a local dealers when I picked up a used CD player. He had them hooked into a Musical Fidelity KW750 driving Proac Response D38s. It's an experience I won't forget for a long time. The CD & DAC dig out levels of detail and subtlety in recordings that I previously never knew existed. Now all I need is to find a way of making £25,000 quickly........
 
The MDA1000 is 80 % of what you were hearing. The big advantage of the MCD1000 transport is a very good design with overkill power supply and most importantly the 110 Ohm AES / EBU output. It just simplifies the process.
The MDA1000 does strip all of the clocks off the incoming 75 Ohm SPDIF signal when using Toslink or Co-Ax RCA style digital cables. If you use a silver plated co-ax type digital cable the performance will be very good. Re-clocking the signal eliminates most of the sonic flavor of whatever transport is used. You can use a very cheap transport with the MDA1000 and have great sound.

Ron-C
 
861?

Hmmm... What are the DACs in an MVP-861 like? In theory, it should function as a universal player, and it has balanced outputs. Are the 24/192 DACs in it higher or lower tech than in the 205 and 300? Are they differential?

Does anyone know how good it sounds as a 2-ch player compared to a MCD-205?
 
Negotiableterms said:
Hmmm... What are the DACs in an MVP-861 like? In theory, it should function as a universal player, and it has balanced outputs. Are the 24/192 DACs in it higher or lower tech than in the 205 and 300? Are they differential?

Does anyone know how good it sounds as a 2-ch player compared to a MCD-205?
Click to expand...

Good question, I wanted to know that too. And compare that to the new MCD201... looks exactly what I was looking for! ;)
 
Mcd-201

I can't find anything on the MCD-201, but Ron-C indicates there will be an announcement this week. Waiting...
 
Much has been written on the MCD205, and it is a great sounding CD player plus it holds five disks.

The MCD201 is a clean sheet design. It features-
2-Channel play back of DSD-SACD, and Red Book PCM-CD
Single disk play
Full size headphone jack with high quality amp
Balanced and unbalanced outputs-fixed, 2 volts
Second set of balanced and unbalanced outputs- 0 to 6 volts variable. Will drive any McIntosh power amp directly.
Large front panel volume knob as on MDA1000, adjustable volume from remote control.
Front panel mute switch that mutes all rear panel analog outputs while headphone jack continues to function.
Very high performance multi-bit DAC that has distortion of .013 on DSD WITHOUT filters, .005 with filters.
PCM decoding at 24/192 performance level, .005 distortion.
Fiberoptic lighting, Skip, scan front panel knob control with spring loading to center
Co-ax and Toslink digital outputs

Shipping by Christmas

Did we miss anything?

Ron-C
 
ron-c said:
Shipping by Christmas

Did we miss anything?

Ron-C
Click to expand...
Hell no! I won't regret buying HD-650's cans last week... I guess that I will start saving right now for a xmas gift from me to me :banana:

Ron, Is it possible to have an idea how the MCD201 performs next to the MVP861 for SACD and CD playback? (or the MCD205 for CD playback)

And is the headphone amp comparable to the one in the MA6500? (Do you consider that the 6500 has a good enough headphone amp for great headphones?)

This might be the new big seller :yes:

Thanks for the info :thmbsp:
 
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The MCD201 will drive the 650s fine. The other models do not have the variable out feature or thr full size headphone jack. The SACD performance of the 201 is state of the art, or so Ted tells me!

Ron-C
 
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