Differences in Amp Sound: What’s the Truth?

Differences in Amp Sound: What’s the Truth?

I read part of this material the other day. I found it interesting, primarily because it forms conclusions based upon scientific evidence. There is so much information on the web that is subjective and contradictory. Since this article is different, I wanted to get some Akers' reactions to the points made by the author.

Whatever. Tubes sound better.

Does every single car sound the same?

The basic automobile has about 16-30000 parts. And I would guess that out of the non-decor parts, about 10-12000 are basically the same (pistons, tires, brake discs, muffler, etc) yet the sound of the engine, the tailpipe note, the handling, drive, and feel of the car can be very unique to each different model and brand.

Maybe it would be simpler to ask if every motorcycle sounds the same.

Or does a desel truck sound better than a gas one? That is IF there is really any difference at all...

Kinda sounds silly if you change the product being discussed.

The way our brains process audio data is all over the map. Makes repeatable tests difficult because we all can be tricked into hearing something that is not there. Better to focus on what you as an individual enjoy. Test and specs can point the way, but the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.

I haven't opened the link yet(I will).

It's difficult to really consider power amps or speakers in isolation. They form a similar partnership to two hands washing each other. A co-operative unity. The amp reacts to the speaker it is hooked-up to and the speaker reacts to the amp it is hooked-up to.

After that the rest of the system interacts with the pairing.

Cars are not transistors. That analogy is just... wrong.

In essence a properly built SS amp will sound "the same" as another properly built SS amp.

This is not always the case, and many manufacturers "tune" the amp to their "house sound". This is why many amps sound "different".

ev13wt said:

In essence a properly built amp will sound "the same" as another properly built amp.

This is not always the case, and many manufacturers "tune" the amp to their "house sound". This is why many amps sound "different".

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That's exactly where the 'all amps sound the same' theory falls down.

Sure, two identical amps will sound the same. However, nobody builds identical amps. They all feature different power supply designs, different circuit topographies and different voicing, and as a result they perform and sound different.

Moreover, you could test two amps into a static 8 ohm load and get certain scientific results which might suggest that certain amps do perform similarly, but hook them to a variety of speakers with real-world impedance curves and phase angles and the results will vary yet again due to the complex loads presented by some speakers.

^^ Agreed.


The article compares SS to tube sound when the system is being over driven producing distortion.

In an optimal setting, distortion from the amp side should be kept to a minimum. After all, its not a electric guitar amp being distorted to "hell" for the effect. This is why I think the article is pretty much worthless in regards to its topic.

If an SS and a tube amp are driving the same pair of reasonably efficient speakers, can we try to "rate" the difference in sound due to impedance load and so forth?

What would be a good estimate for "different" sound in the above example? 0.002%, 0.02%, 2%, 5% or even more?


All in all, the best speakers have an order of magnitude higher distortion than any amplifier. I think this can be seen as a fact. So if someone doesn't like the "sound" of their system, I think the first area of change should always be the speakers.

ev13wt said:

Cars are not transistors. That analogy is just... wrong.

In essence a properly built SS amp will sound "the same" as another properly built SS amp.

This is not always the case, and many manufacturers "tune" the amp to their "house sound". This is why many amps sound "different".

Click to expand...

I did not say a car was equal to a transistor. Just as a transistor is not an amplifier.

My analogy foolishly illustrates that a Harley and a Honda motorcycle are built with very simular parts that serve the exact same function on both bikes, yet both being properly built do not sound the same to me. Even with the same gas, oil, tires, plugs, CC's, etc, ... Yet I can tell the difference when I hear a bike stopped at a traffic light. I may never be able to tell you 100% of the time where the bike was made or by which company--not even 10% of the time, but I still can tell you if they are different.

Look at pasta. The same factory uses the same water and same Semolina to make all their pasta shapes. Yet people have a preference for a certain size, and shape. To them it tastes better or they like the mouth feel of it. Either way they have a very real, discernible, preference for one type over another even though the parts that make up the product are exactly the same, just stylistically different.

That's why I feel it's silly to argue. People have different tastes and interpretations of the World we all share. Just because an idea or interpretation is or isn't popular doesn't automatically make it anymore right or wrong. It just is.

I don't know why so much effort is expended in these things. A few things to consider...

In the "amp challenge", you really should read the rules. Because basically, most of those tests go something like this. "If I make two amplifiers sound the same, you can't tell them apart". Well, yeah. If I paint a wagon red, you can't tell the formerly blue wagon from the red one.

They say something like "under no stress, all amps sound the same". Well, of course. But amplifiers are often under stress. What they do when they are, is what many people prefer in one over another.

Amps DO measure differently, so why wouldn't they sound subjectively different?

Finally, one thing to consider is this. Anybody who spends any amount of time listening a great deal can tell you with near certainty for themselves, that they are comfortable in the idea that amps sound different from one another. They may not be "functionally" different from one another...they are amplifying a signal, roughly in a linear fashion, and doing what an amp is supposed to do. That they do it with a bit of a difference that is either important or not important to any given person, is part of the FUN of this hobby, to a great number of people. Why all the vehemence against that? If it entertains somebody, as it does myself, to play around with the subtle differences, so be it.

You'll have people say that its a name, or an expense, that gets people to believe things. Why then did I absolutely HATE the Levinson 331 I was borrowing a few weeks ago? I couldn't stand to listen to it, for more than a song or two. It was quite obviously too prominent in part of the midrange, and it was fatiguing to listen to. Could I have possibly EQed it to sound like the T+A amp I replaced it with, that I enjoy and like to listen to music on? Perhaps. But I don't care to do that. So I don't.

I notice a few speaker designers really have a thing for saying all amps sound the same. Or, at least, are functionally the same within reason so just buy the differences they care about, not the ones they don't. Well, ok...a person who isn't obsessed with pancakes, and instead is into sausage, may not notice a difference in batters that somebody obsessed with pancakes does. Why the antagonism (Alan Shaw)? We have a saying in my generation: "Don't be a douche". Don't be. BTW, plenty of speaker designers do believe in amp differences. So don't believe them when they pass it off as an industry wide belief. It isn't.

A lot of sound and fury in this hobby is wasted on killjoy. Let people have their fun. Save your breath. Its NOT that important to get right.

I love the differences in amplifiers. You could have me fail 10 blind tests in a row, and I would still love the differences in amplifiers, and still have little faith in the validity of a "test" to tell me that I don't know what I have proven to myself to know, for the purposes of my own happiness. Its enough for me. If somebody doesn't think amplifiers are different, then I wish them the best. But don't tell me to enjoy the world in your manner. I have my life, you have yours. I have my ears, you have yours. I have my hobby, you have yours. Let it be.

ev13wt said:

All in all, the best speakers have an order of magnitude higher distortion than any amplifier. I think this can be seen as a fact. So if someone doesn't like the "sound" of their system, I think the first area of change should always be the speakers.

Click to expand...

Without a doubt speakers make the biggest difference in sound quality.Amps are further down the list in importance,for my money.I have six receivers and a speaker switcher wired in reverse to one pair of speakers so I compare them often and find very little to no difference in sound between them.

just dave said:

Without a doubt speakers make the biggest difference in sound quality.Amps are further down the list in importance,for my money.I have six receivers and a speaker switcher wired in reverse to one pair of speakers so I compare them often and find very little to no difference in sound between them.

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A lot of amps sound equally mediocre.

Or equally great.

just dave said:

Or equally great.

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Nope. Just mediocre.

Robinhawaii said:

I did not say a car was equal to a transistor. Just as a transistor is not an amplifier.

My analogy foolishly illustrates that a Harley and a Honda motorcycle are built with very simular parts that serve the exact same function on both bikes, yet both being properly built do not sound the same to me. Even with the same gas, oil, tires, plugs, CC's, etc, ... Yet I can tell the difference when I hear a bike stopped at a traffic light. I may never be able to tell you 100% of the time where the bike was made or by which company--not even 10% of the time, but I still can tell you if they are different.

Look at pasta. The same factory uses the same water and same Semolina to make all their pasta shapes. Yet people have a preference for a certain size, and shape. To them it tastes better or they like the mouth feel of it. Either way they have a very real, discernible, preference for one type over another even though the parts that make up the product are exactly the same, just stylistically different.

That's why I feel it's silly to argue. People have different tastes and interpretations of the World we all share. Just because an idea or interpretation is or isn't popular doesn't automatically make it anymore right or wrong. It just is.

Click to expand...

The motorcycles may sound different - but they all put the same energy to the ground propelling you forward. They are different in style, sitting position, sound, power and power band. But ultimately they do one thing: Move a person on the road. And all in all, they all do that pretty much the same.

Same with pasta. Hungry? Eat pasta = not hungry. They look different and feel different and all that, but ultimately they feed you.

Nope. Just mediocre.

Perhaps to your ears not mine.

Click to expand...

theophile said:

A lot of amps sound equally mediocre.

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And a lot of high end amps all sound equally high end. Well, and you can't EQ with most of them.

As always , speakers , room coloration and source make a much bigger difference . Get a high quality SS amp , receiver whatever and don't sweat the little stuff .

just dave said:

Without a doubt speakers make the biggest difference in sound quality.Amps are further down the list in importance,for my money.I have six receivers and a speaker switcher wired in reverse to one pair of speakers so I compare them often and find very little to no difference in sound between them.

Click to expand...

just dave would like to know
how you wired the selector
in reverse to compare different
amps please.
thanks for any information

There are differences in amps sound. You can hear them with some speakers more than another. An usually one can attribute it to certain differences in measurable parameters. Do yourself a favour and buy remotely controlled speaker switch like OSD ATM7. Then you can easy do comparion yourself.