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Renaissance 90's Purchased! Waiting for delivery!

C

CAK1

Active Member
Well, as some may know I have been searching for some Ren 90's for a long while...my search has ended! I purchased the pair that was listed on Audiogon a few days ago.

They will be replacing my 80's, this will be their new home.

Room%200014.jpg


Associated equipment as follows:

Jolida CD-100a Tube output with 5751 Sylvania triple mica black plate's
Aragon 28k MKII Pre-amp (not shown in picture)
Aragon 4004 MKII amp (400x2 into 4ohm, stable to direct short)
AudioQuest Diamondback interconnects
AudioQuest Speaker Cables
PureAV surge/conditioner
Column base traps as well as front wall, side wall and rear wall treatments.

I'll be sure to write up my impression after I get some time on them. Also, in case anyone is interested, my pristine Ren 80's will be on the market very soon! PM me if interested.

Chris
 
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Hah, I saw those got snatched up fast. Glad it was you. Very reasonable price, too. Congratulations!

David
 
Congratulations Chris, I'm sure you are going to have many years of sonic enjoyment with your purchase. I couldn't be happier with mine. (Well except replacing the woofer, see other string).
Cheers!
 
Well...initial impressions

Very briefly as I only have about an hour worth of listening on the 90's...the 80's, considering they are lacking the mid-bass and have 8' woofers sure impress the hell out of me!

As far as differences, the 90's dig a little deeper in the bass region and are able to play louder, cleaner. Much less of a difference than I expected or would've thought.

The big difference is the midrange. The 80's are very good with a "peer through a window" imaging. The 90's just bring the realism up to a whole new level. The sound stage grew in width but more specifically in height. One of my test cd's is Norah Jones latest cd. With the 80's, vocals were coming through center stage, mid chest height. The 90's bring the vocals up, mouth height. If you close your eyes, it's not hard to imagine Norah is singing smack dab in front...truly awesome! Detail is improved, nuances are more easily heard and vocals just have this liquidity that’s hard to describe.

Suffice to say, the 90's are staying and the 80's are looking for a new home (in case you’re interested). :thmbsp:

I'll report back more of my impressions as I get some more time on them.

Related equipment:

Aragon 4004MKII
Aragon 28K MKII Preamp
Jolida CD-100A
Sylvania triple black NOS 5751 and Jan 5751
 
Glad to hear you're happy with them. I think the tweeter at ear level belief is wrong. In my experience, if the tweeter and mid are higher than ear lever the sound is fuller and imaging is larger in height. Just check all the super high end designs and you see where they place the tweeter.
Enjoy. :music:
 
Congratulations on your purchase. From reading your post, you seem to have achieved what has eluded me for years: having the performer "in the room." I've had my Ren 90's since I bought them new in 1993 and I'm now looking for a better way to power them. I searched for the Aragon equipment you have, but, sadly, it doesn't appear to be in production. I've also toyed with buying Mc Intosh, but, frankly, I haven't a clue if it will be what I'm looking for. Not to mention the fact that it's $$$. My choices seem very narrow when it comes to our power-hungry 4 Ohm Ren 90's. Does anyone have a suggestion for me, preferrably equipment that is currently sold and new? I'd hate to make a very expensive mistake...again.
 
:thmbsp:
Greetings, chris for your purchases
I have a pair infinity kappa 8.1i and a pair ren90
My preference is the ren90:D
 
***update***

Well, now have a few weeks under my belt with the 90's.

The bad...

I've noticed some interesting differences between the 80's and the 90's. The first issue is bass. The 80's for just having an 8" driver delivered on the bass. In fact the 80's put out cleaner, tighter, puncher and deeper bass than my 90's which I find really odd. The 90's are seriously bass challenged and I think Infinity really missed the mark. It must be the first speaker I've ever owned were an 8" driver outperformed a 10" driver.

The bass was so anemic I actually called Bill Watkin to see if my drivers might have an issue. Interestingly Bill prefers the 80's to the 90's altogether saying the 80's bass is more realistic. Bill said that during the development stage of the 90's when he was working with Infinity, they couldn't get the phase between the woofer and mid-base correct. Bill tried to talk Infinity out of using the mid-bass but they were adamant about using it.

According to bill, it appears that my drivers are fine.

For the record, they do produce bass...it's the output that doesn't seem to match with the mid-bass and it rolls off super fast... it just seems to be lean. If I were able to coax a few more db from the low end it would be spot on. I may try jumping the 882uF cap; this should allow one of the voice coils to get a full signal. I actually had Danny Ritchie of GR research look at the crossovers; his reply was "Wow, what an unbelievable mess that network is. It kind of makes one think, what were they thinking?" I may someday have the x-overs completely reworked using high quality caps.

Another thing the 80's do better is transparency. The 80's literally disappeared in my room. I think this just may be contributed to a size thing.

Now the good...

The 90's have a much bigger, taller, wider soundstage than the 80's. The kind of soundstage that fills the entire front wall. Not quite as 3D as the 80's but very nice and full. Full, that’s the other thing the 90's do better. From the mid-bass and up, the speakers are much fuller, richer sounding. Male and female vocals sound more realistic.

So for now I'm playing with placement to see if I can coax a little more bass out of them. If I can’t, not sure what I'll do. Maybe redo the x-overs and see what can be done on that front.

I've been able to A/B some Sigma's with my 90's. Top end is very close to the Sigma's however the Sigma’s just walk all over the 90's in bass, no comparison.

So all in all, a little disappointed but on the other hand some improvements can probably be made which to me is part of the fun of this hobby.

Thanks,

Chris
 
I know this might sound funny as a lot of people like the Renn 90 but If you ever get the chance try listening to the kappa 9....Bass that you dream about ( 2 modes normal & extended ) , great highs and everything in between. As long as you have good amps of course.
CAK1 said:
Well, now have a few weeks under my belt with the 90's.

The bad...

I've noticed some interesting differences between the 80's and the 90's. The first issue is bass. The 80's for just having an 8" driver delivered on the bass. In fact the 80's put out cleaner, tighter, puncher and deeper bass than my 90's which I find really odd. The 90's are seriously bass challenged and I think Infinity really missed the mark. It must be the first speaker I've ever owned were an 8" driver outperformed a 10" driver.

The bass was so anemic I actually called Bill Watkin to see if my drivers might have an issue. Interestingly Bill prefers the 80's to the 90's altogether saying the 80's bass is more realistic. Bill said that during the development stage of the 90's when he was working with Infinity, they couldn't get the phase between the woofer and mid-base correct. Bill tried to talk Infinity out of using the mid-bass but they were adamant about using it.

According to bill, it appears that my drivers are fine.

For the record, they do produce bass...it's the output that doesn't seem to match with the mid-bass and it rolls off super fast... it just seems to be lean. If I were able to coax a few more db from the low end it would be spot on. I may try jumping the 882uF cap; this should allow one of the voice coils to get a full signal. I actually had Danny Ritchie of GR research look at the crossovers; his reply was "Wow, what an unbelievable mess that network is. It kind of makes one think, what were they thinking?" I may someday have the x-overs completely reworked using high quality caps.

Another thing the 80's do better is transparency. The 80's literally disappeared in my room. I think this just may be contributed to a size thing.

Now the good...

The 90's have a much bigger, taller, wider soundstage than the 80's. The kind of soundstage that fills the entire front wall. Not quite as 3D as the 80's but very nice and full. Full, that’s the other thing the 90's do better. From the mid-bass and up, the speakers are much fuller, richer sounding. Male and female vocals sound more realistic.

So for now I'm playing with placement to see if I can coax a little more bass out of them. If I can’t, not sure what I'll do. Maybe redo the x-overs and see what can be done on that front.

I've been able to A/B some Sigma's with my 90's. Top end is very close to the Sigma's however the Sigma’s just walk all over the 90's in bass, no comparison.

So all in all, a little disappointed but on the other hand some improvements can probably be made which to me is part of the fun of this hobby.

Thanks,

Chris
Click to expand...
 
Chris, are you sure the crossovers and internal glass fiber dumping have not been altered-modified? Is the woofer enclosure full of poly-fill or just the walls lined up? Do the 80s and 90s have the same sensitivity? If so, the 90s should have at least louder bass. Check the value of the electrolytics, as they go dry after a decade or so. If possible use a SPL meter with a test CD to check the variation in the lows.
 
i would move the speakers back toward the rear wall a bit. that should increase the bass but you might lose something else. then there's always the subwoofer
 
My thoughts...

I pulled both woofers out to make sure the dual voice coil connections are correct and attached, they were fine. There is pollyfill behind each driver (allot) but looks to be the correct amount according to my exploded view PDF that I got from infinity (it's hosted on the yahoo msg board in the "files" section) if your interested. The caps I haven't checked but I did do an SPL test with just the low end connected, compared left to right and they are identical in output.

I used the "realtraps" test cd From 10hz to 200hz in 1hz increments. Setting pink noise at 75db, I was down about 6db at 27hz. The weird thing is that the drivers sound like they are chuffing down low. It's not distortion, just not clean low bass. In a 12x14x8 room, these things should overpower the room with bass...just not there.

As far as placement, I have moved them all over... 2 feet from the front wall to as far as five feet in one inch increments and took spl recordings at each spot. Bass does increase at the expense of soundstage and 3d imaging. I actually have them about 6 inches closer to the front wall than I had my 80's. About the same distance to the side walls as the 80's.

It's hard to explain, the 80's are just punchy, tight and quick, they catch you off guard at times. The 90's just kind of lumber along, really "one note" type of bass. I may just rework the bass x-over with new caps with the same values as factory to eliminate that as a possible problem. Who knows...it could be a room interaction thing as well. Maybe the 80's loaded the room better. If I can just get a little more output down low, I think I'll be good. I would trade the quality bass I got with the 80's for the soundstage of the 90's. The 90's are real nice in the midrange.

Oh, btw both 80's and 90's measured at 87db, 4ohm.

Thanks for the reply's and suggestions guys; I'll keep you updated on my x-over rework.

Chris
 
Hello Chris !

First of all congratulation, Re90 are amazing speakers. I have them as well in black piano finishing.

Now , back to your bass problems. Re90 are much more difficult to drive than 80's. In the bass region they drop up to 1Ohm as I remember.
I don't know your amplifier but the most important question is : is it stable up to 1Ohm?

In my system, after many changes I use Yamaha MX-1000 a real beast with dynamic power 1000Watts on 1Ohm.
No problem with bass at all !
Also ribbon drivers are very power hungry and without enough power they can destroy themselves!

Please keep me updated with your x-over rework.
 
Thanks for the advise...

I'm running them with an Aragon 4004 MKII. It's rated at 400watts/channel in 4ohm, stable to direct short. I think I'm good on power. I will be hooking them up to a pair of Aragon Palladiums (1.2 Kilowatts). That should rule out any questions of not having enough power.

Chris
 
Dartman, welcome to AK. Whereabouts are you located in Poland? Just curious, as my wife is from there. She grew up in Tychy.
 
CAK1 said:
I'm running them with an Aragon 4004 MKII. It's rated at 400watts/channel in 4ohm, stable to direct short. I think I'm good on power. I will be hooking them up to a pair of Aragon Palladiums (1.2 Kilowatts). That should rule out any questions of not having enough power.

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris,

try different amp.
 
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