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Very Impressed with These IMF's

captouch

captouch

Addicted Member
Got a pair of IMF TLS50 II's locally off CL last September after seeing a Dollars and Sense heads-up post. Refoamed the mids and recapped the crossovers, and now driving them with 120w KT88 tube monoblocks (from BT) and a CJ PV5 pre (from Audiogon).

I'm know it gets better than this, but this is really good enough for me. :banana:

This is in the Speakers forum because I'm impressed as heck with these speakers! I had bought the monoblocks to use with my Alon II's, but when comparing this setup with both speakers, the IMF's easily beat the Alons to my ears, which I wasn't expecting. Bigger soundstage, deeper bass (as expected), and just a fuller, smoother sound. Now I know the Alon's are very setup sensitive, so they likely were not at their full potential due to room/setup, but nevertheless. . .

A pleasant surprise is the usefulness of the 3-way perspective control, which 'psycho-acoustically' (IMF's words, not mine!) brings the presentation closer or pushes it back based on different cap (and maybe resistor also?) values. It really works. As I was cautioned by a veteran AK'er, the PV5 can have a more distant presentation, but the '+' perspective setting brings the performance back into the room.

Can't say enough about the IMF sound. I know there are some devotees here (the always helpful Canucker for one), but if you find the opportunity to pick some up, jump on it. There are even better IMF's than the TLS 50 II's, but man, these are GOOD!
 
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Interesting driver arrangement.:scratch2:

They look substantial. Pretty heavy?

Rob
 
About 60lbs each - that's pretty heavy to me, but full size speakers are all pretty heavy I've noticed.
 
Really happy to hear you are enjoying them. My Super Compacts actually sound very much like my Reference IMFs. You've pretty much got 80% of what IMF can offer with those 50s. The only reason you could want the bigger ones is for a larger sized room, otherwise you've already got the best for your needs. Honestly besides the bass output I have a hard time telling the difference between my Super Compacts and my RSPMs.

Here's a neat little tidbit.

Back in their glory, at trade shows when demonstrating the lineup, in the middle of demoing the big models they would unknowingly switch over to the Super Compacts. At the end they would ask if anyone could tell they switched - most couldn't tell. Just goes to show you the kind of quality they put into every single speaker they made. It doesn't matter if you get the compact models or the really big ones - they are all exceedingly good. :)
 
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canuckaudiog said:
Really happy to hear you are enjoying them. My Super Compacts actually sound very much like my Reference IMFs. You've pretty much got 80% of what IMF can offer with those 50s. The only reason you could want the bigger ones is for a larger sized room, otherwise you've already got the best for your needs. Honestly besides the bass output I have a hard time telling the difference between my Super Compacts and my RSPMs.
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What I'm wondering about is how the sound would change with stands (you sent me some dimensions awhile ago). I know the 50's never came with stands, but that may not have been because they wouldn't benefit from them, since several of the other floorstanders came with them.

Have you compared any of the other big IMF models, with stands vs without?

They'd have to be built by hand, so hardwood might be best. Have to support those 60lbs. But as you said earlier, shouldn't be a difficult project.
 
captouch said:
What I'm wondering about is how the sound would change with stands (you sent me some dimensions awhile ago). I know the 50's never came with stands, but that may not have been because they wouldn't benefit from them, since several of the other floorstanders came with them.

Have you compared any of the other big IMF models, with stands vs without?

They'd have to be built by hand, so hardwood might be best. Have to support those 60lbs. But as you said earlier, shouldn't be a difficult project.
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I have not done that sort of experimenting myself, my RSPM's are big and heavy suckers, I need help to move them off the stands.

But what I can tell you is that the stands help raise the tweeters to the right height, and this does make quite a difference in the imaging and overall presentation. On top of that it tilts the speaker back 5 degrees - also very helpful for on-axis response.

I'd say get some stands and raise them about 3-4" off the ground. That will help improve bass coloration as well as improving the imaging. The IMF TLS 50 IIa which is a model that came in the late 70's came with factory stands, so IMF did in fact do that eventually but not at first. It will make a good improvement in many areas - ask SimplySound about that, he ended up raising his pair off the ground and I'm sure he can fill in about what sort of improvements it made.
 
Almost impossible to find a pair of IIa stands I would think. And 4-5" speaker stands aren't common either.

Guess I know what project to add to my list. . .if I do end up building them, I'll post some thoughts.
 
captouch said:
Almost impossible to find a pair of IIa stands I would think. And 4-5" speaker stands aren't common either.

Guess I know what project to add to my list. . .if I do end up building them, I'll post some thoughts.
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I've never heard this speakers before Enjoy it!
I love vintage speakers they are probably my favorite.
Modern Sub-woofers I also luv:D Huge XMAX
 
canuckaudiog said:
But what I can tell you is that the stands help raise the tweeters to the right height, and this does make quite a difference in the imaging and overall presentation....

I'd say get some stands and raise them about 3-4" off the ground. That will help improve bass coloration as well as improving the imaging - ask SimplySound about that, he ended up raising his pair off the ground and I'm sure he can fill in about what sort of improvements it made.
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Great to see you are enjoying your 50's Captouch... I too have been really impressed with mine, even if they aren't all original or running their best! They compare VERY FAVORABLY to my KEF R107's and that is really saying something!

The key I think is in the cabinet design (first and best real implementation of a Transmission Line) and the crossover design (handling a four-way). It speaks volumes that mine sounded as good as they do even with all the issues they have, including outdated caps!

Now to the issues of stands... Canucker is right about all of this. Not that the 50's sound bad on the floor. But once I got mine on stands the bass cleared up and had much better detail. I too wanted mine to be at ear height compared to my KEF's. I have both of them at the same plane and this really helps to blend the width of the stage.

Now my stands are unconventional and are made from some Sanus Stands I had previously. I may change them eventually to make them a bit more stable, but they are actually fine in my world so I'm in no rush.

One of the keys I found is to use "points'. My stands are pointed on the base and the floor under the carpet is concrete, so they are vey well grounded. I modified my stands to have a 3/4" MDF Top-plate that is also pointed. It sits inside the Speaker Base and adds to the isolation of the speaker from the Top Plate.

I really experimented with this and found that a free floating cabinet gave me the best Bass Definition. If you use a "Conventional" IMF stand, it might be worth pointing it on the rails to get the speaker base up off of the rails.

Here's a picture of my speakers on stands. I will post a picture later today of the actual stand.

wIMG_7476.jpg
 
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Simply, thanks.

I think I'll have to weigh the points on the top vs the original incline built into the IMF designed stands - I'm guessing your stands are horizontally flat and not inclined, right? Otherwise, it seems kind of risky to have the speaker itself on points on the stand even with a gentle incline. California is earthquake country, so. . .

The IMF stand has dimensions as shown below:
n_a.jpg


This is what gives the 5 degree tilt Canucker mentioned. I was thinking of building these with oak and putting points/spikes on the bottom of these.

I suppose the raw wood would be cheap enough that I could build it both ways and see whether points-on-top or incline sound better.
 
captouch said:
Simply, thanks.

I think I'll have to weigh the points on the top vs the original incline built into the IMF designed stands - I'm guessing your stands are horizontally flat and not inclined, right? Otherwise, it seems kind of risky to have the speaker itself on points on the stand even with a gentle incline. California is earthquake country....
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Oh yeah.... those considerations do weigh in and yeah, my stands would never work in Cali. However, the IMF stands I have seen have an opening that craddles the base. You could put points into them I think with no worries of them shifting. You would want to make the opening big enough to not really touch the sides of the bases and the points would lift the bottom of the cabinet off of the rails.

See this picture.... and for sale here.

imf%20stand.jpg
 
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captouch said:
Thanks.

So you're thinking points facing up and "digging" into the speaker bottom, correct?
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Correct so that they are "floating" above the square opening that would protect them from really shifting if a big rumbler hit. :thmbsp:

And yeah... points on the bases to really isloate them further.
 
Took a run to Home Depot this morning to scope out the lumber situation for building my own stands. I could find ~1"x1" hardwood (a bit short of the dimensions spec'd), but finding 1" by >4" width planks wasn't happening.

The alternative, which I will try, is to use thicker pieces of Douglas Fir. The frame bezel pieces will be wider (~1.5" wide), which means they'll protrude around the periphery of the bottom of the speaker cabinet. May not be as pretty, but I'd rather fault on the side of being stronger than needed rather than weaker. I'll just slice up a 2 x 4 for the vertical portion. I'll have to compensate a bit all around to get the same overall height, but that'll be straightfoward.

Only about $20 in material costs, so low investment if it looks terrible or doesn't improve SQ. I'll likely spike the bottoms, but am still hesitant to upward spike the bottom of the speakers to start with. Maybe I'll be more comfortable with that once I see what a 5 degree incline actually looks like.

Will post pictures of the unpainted stands later this week. I'll only bother painting them if they improve SQ and don't look too bad.
 
I used some old (bought used) Target brand amplifier stands to raise my TLS80 speakers. They were plenty strong enough, and already had adjustable spikes. I think they raised the speakers around 5" off the floor.
 
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Ohighway said:
I used some old (bought used) Target brand amplifier stands to raise my TLS80 speakers. They were plenty strong enough, and already had adjustable spikes. I think they raised the speakers around 5" off the floor.
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Did you find they improved SQ being off the floor?
 
I thought they sounded a bit better. I was curious if raising them even higher would help or not but never got around to trying that.
 
captouch said:
About 60lbs each - that's pretty heavy to me, but full size speakers are all pretty heavy I've noticed.
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The TLS-50's are 60lbs EACH??? Damn, that's heavy. I would have expected to hear that about the TLS-80's...

IMF definitely has the type of sound I like. Smooth and engaging, plus a great bass-response that isn't boomy at all. My kind of speaker.
 
Gang-Twanger said:
The TLS-50's are 60lbs EACH??? Damn, that's heavy. I would have expected to hear that about the TLS-80's...

IMF definitely has the type of sound I like. Smooth and engaging, plus a great bass-response that isn't boomy at all. My kind of speaker.
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Yup, each. I'm going by the official 27kg weight here:
http://www.imf-electronics.com/Home/imf/speaker-range/studios/tls50

As well as the more informal measure of how much grunting I do when I have to carry these bad boys around the room. :yes:
 
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