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LED Drop in fuse lamp replacements

CKeeler

CKeeler

Active Member
Hello fellow AK'ers. I'm starting this thread for a couple of reasons. The first one being this thread:

http://http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=480010

All the disscussion and some confusion had me scratching my head :scratch2:

So, here is the deal-e-o. I have been building drop in fuse lamp replacements for some years now. And sold literally thousands now. And so what? Right?

Well, in short these are different. These lamps will work with ANY voltage as long as it's between 3v and 40v AC or DC. The LEDs will shine at the full brightness potential AND they put out the same amount of light no matter what voltage you have as long as its between the stated ratings of 3-40 volts. :thmbsp:

There is no resistor, no diode, or any other junk like that. Before you call me a liar, let me just explain it very simply.

Each lamp has a device for each LED which is a linear constant current regulator (CCR) that regulates current. It is based on Self-Biased Transistor (SBT) technology and regulates current over a wide voltage range. It is designed with a negative temperature coefficient to protect LEDs from thermal runaway at extreme voltages and currents. I used to sell these on the "bay", but I could not keep up with the demand.

So, this gets me to the second reason for starting this thread. KKnight in the above referenced thread finally gave up in his quest. I was a little suprised at this for a number of reasons.

1. Has nobody ever heard of these drop in replacements on this forum?
2. I have sold thousands of these lamps. Unboubtedly many of those people are members of this forum, yet I think there is only a mention or two of them in the Marantz forum.
3. The technology used for these is amazing, and its basically a drop in replacement that works in any vintage application. Sheesh, it doesnt get any easier than that!

The third reason is this. After reading through the above referenced thread, I contacted KKnight, (I felt bad he had given up on his quest) and I offered him a set of my lamps for free! Well.........he basically turned me down due to the fact that he does not understand how the technology used in these lamps works and did not fully believe that they will work on any voltage between 3-40v and shine like crazy. I explained........but........he is unsure if these lamps will cause damage to his unit :confused:

Lastly......pleeeeeease do not take this post as me trying to push my lamps! I am not trying to get people to buy lamps from me because of this post :no: I also do not want to step on anybody elses toes as I know there are other members here who also build LED fuse lamps. I am wanting to clear up the whole "drop in replacement" "set it and forget it" LED fuse lamp thing and show others that such a thing does actually exist. Please do not take this post as some kind of commercial, and I certainly do not want to be banned or anything because of it.

I want to help any poster of the above thread and get a set of lamps in KKnights unit. But here is what he would like based on the conversation we had. He would like to hear some thoughts from others on them first. Mainly, what they think of them, how does the lighting look, and he really wants to hear from the veteran pros on this forum.

AK has given so much to me over the years, and now it's my turn to pay back some Audio"Karma".

I am going to build a batch of lamps (about 150 or so). I am going to give a free lamp to anybody who wants one and even pay the shipping (as long as you are in the US). Just PM me an address. Then let us all know what you think, good, bad, indifferent. How do they compare to incandesent? How do they compare to ANY other LED fuse lamp you have ever tried? MTF, EchoWars, Dr.Audio, any of you pro Marantz, or Sansui guys......this thread will really be awesome with your input, so please contact me for a lamp. And remember.....
:worthless
 
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CKeeler said:
Hello fellow AK'ers. I'm starting this thread for a couple of reasons. The first one being this thread:

http://http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=480010

All the disscussion and some confusion had me scratching my head :scratch2:

So, here is the deal-e-o. I have been building drop in fuse lamp replacements for some years now. And sold literally thousands now. And so what? Right?

Well, in short these are different. These lamps will work with ANY voltage as long as it's between 3v and 40v AC or DC. The LEDs will shine at the full brightness potential AND they put out the same amount of light no matter what voltage you have as long as its between the stated ratings of 3-40 volts. :thmbsp:

There is no resistor, no diode, or any other junk like that. Before you call me a liar, let me just explain it very simply.

Each lamp has a device for each LED which is a linear constant current regulator (CCR) that regulates current. It is based on Self-Biased Transistor (SBT) technology and regulates current over a wide voltage range. It is designed with a negative temperature coefficient to protect LEDs from thermal runaway at extreme voltages and currents. I used to sell these on the "bay", but I could not keep up with the demand.

So, this gets me to the second reason for starting this thread. KKnight in the above referenced thread finally gave up in his quest. I was a little suprised at this for a number of reasons.

1. Has nobody ever heard of these drop in replacements on this forum?
2. I have sold thousands of these lamps. Unboubtedly many of those people are members of this forum, yet I think there is only a mention or two of them in the Marantz forum.
3. The technology used for these is amazing, and its basically a drop in replacement that works in any vintage application. Sheesh, it doesnt get any easier than that!

The third reason is this. After reading through the above referenced thread, I contacted KKnight, (I felt bad he had given up on his quest) and I offered him a set of my lamps for free! Well.........he basically turned me down due to the fact that he does not understand how the technology used in these lamps works and did not fully believe that they will work on any voltage between 3-40v and shine like crazy. I explained........but........he is unsure if these lamps will cause damage to his unit :confused:

Lastly......pleeeeeease do not take this post as me trying to push my lamps! I am not trying to get people to buy lamps from me because of this post :no: I also do not want to step on anybody elses toes as I know there are other members here who also build LED fuse lamps. I am wanting to clear up the whole "drop in replacement" "set it and forget it" LED fuse lamp thing and show others that such a thing does actually exist. Please do not take this post as some kind of commercial, and I certainly do not want to be banned or anything because of it.

I want to help any poster of the above thread and get a set of lamps in KKnights unit. But here is what he would like based on the conversation we had. He would like to hear some thoughts from others on them first. Mainly, what they think of them, how does the lighting look, and he really wants to hear from the veteran pros on this forum.

AK has given so much to me over the years, and now it's my turn to pay back some Audio"Karma".

I am going to build a batch of lamps (about 150 or so). I am going to give a free lamp to anybody who wants one and even pay the shipping (as long as you are in the US). Just PM me an address. Then let us all know what you think, good, bad, indifferent. How do they compare to incandesent? How do they compare to ANY other LED fuse lamp you have ever tried? MTF, EchoWars, Dr.Audio, any of you pro Marantz, or Sansui guys......this thread will really be awesome with your input, so please contact me for a lamp. And remember.....
:worthless
Click to expand...

Now, THAT'S taking the bull by the horns eh! Quite an offer CK.

Waiting to see what MTF analyzes, and personally would like to see MTF use your lamps and then his direct feedback. I am MORE THAN WILLING to try them, but do not want to be a beta tester nor cause any residual damage to my units.

CK- again my friend, where can anyone see (pics) your patent pending lamps in action now?:music:
 
KKnight said:
Now, THAT'S taking the bull by the horns eh! Quite an offer CK.

Waiting to see what MTF analyzes, and personally would like to see MTF use your lamps and then his direct feedback. I am MORE THAN WILLING to try them, but do not want to be a beta tester nor cause any residual damage to my units.

CK- again my friend, where can anyone see (pics) your patent pending lamps in action now?:music:
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with being too cautious I suppose.

I will post up some pics tonight of the lamps, along with several pics of Marantz, Pioneer, and Sansui, units using these lamps.
 
To be honest, I have not dug deeply into the fuse lamp replacement question, thus I was unaware of this.

Straight off, electronically this is doable. An elegant technical solution :D Usually the idea of the parts count and cost of the parts and the space available to do it in might put some inventor/developers off, especially with a final "price point".

Most of the fuse lamp units don't use (voltage) tricks to light up the lamps due to the relatively high current demand (300mA per lamp and many lamps), thus these should be quite safe.

And the things that I could worry about (series resistors, currents, reverse voltages etc) DO NOT apply here, because in the units that Pioneer gets tricky with lamp lighting voltages and currents (using series resistors fed DC OR AC because an incandescent lamp doesn't care about that) it is with SINGLE 8v 50mA 4mm bulb lamps... which certainly are NOT fuse type lamps.

The rest of it is personal taste for the appearance - the brightness and perceived color (and color preferences) for that model. I cannot comment on that.

On a personal note, the OP is a multi year posting member - so I do not ascribe a profit orientated hit and run motive here, but rather altruism :bigok:

and as a final note, on the blue / yellowish color perception issue - I have run into many original Pioneer (wedge) lamps that appear to be TINTED BLUE by the factory, saying to me they were trying to cut down on the yellow component of the incandescent lamps they used.
 
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Here some photos as promised. I hope I am not committing a sin by posting pics of other brands in the Pioneer forum :scratch2:

If so go easy on me :whip:

Got tons more photos, but will leave it at this for now.
 

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Looks great CK. PM and Paypal sent.

MTF- get your trial one or order a set, and install them in something and post your feedback.
 
CKeeler LED's are fantastic..

I purchased these drop in LED's for my Sansui 5050..and i was stunned at how easy the application was....impressed with the quality of the actual lamps..pleased with the quick and friendly service from Cody..and just damn happy at how beautiful and warm the 'light' from these lamps look on my receiver..this guy,CKeeler, is one of the nicest and most helpful people that i ever encountered, and a friendship and a shared love of vintage electronics has fostered from this..
i have purchased multiple lamps for my radios and other electronics and have never
had any issues with quality or lack of support..rapid shipping and turn around time is great too..
i honestly endorse these lamps and Cody..you will not be disappointed..
rich
allegany,ny
 
CKeeler - You posted the picture... I can't help it, are those current regulator diodes?

What is their part number?
 
rrd13 said:
I purchased these drop in LED's for my Sansui 5050..and i was stunned at how easy the application was....impressed with the quality of the actual lamps..pleased with the quick and friendly service from Cody..and just damn happy at how beautiful and warm the 'light' from these lamps look on my receiver..this guy,CKeeler, is one of the nicest and most helpful people that i ever encountered, and a friendship and a shared love of vintage electronics has fostered from this..
i have purchased multiple lamps for my radios and other electronics and have never
had any issues with quality or lack of support..rapid shipping and turn around time is great too..
i honestly endorse these lamps and Cody..you will not be disappointed..
rich
allegany,ny
Click to expand...

Holy prophylactics Batman!!

Thanks for the kind words Rich :yes:
 
markthefixer said:
CKeeler - You posted the picture... I can't help it, are those current regulator diodes?

What is their part number?
Click to expand...

:no:
Good eye though! You are close. Very similar to a CCD in function but better because those are actually a self biased transistor designed to regulate the current through itself and any devices in series with it.
 
They are called by various names, but the voltage current curves are the same:

833-CLD20B-TP Current Limit Diode by Micro Commercial Components
610-CMJH150 Current Limit Diode by Central Semiconductor
954-S-183T Current Regulative Diode by Semitec
 
CKeeler, now THAT is a nice solution. That's pretty much what I was hoping to do myself, and I think it would be generous (to me) to compare my effort to yours as a fingerpainting to a Renoir. If I had known about these before, I likely would have gone that route, depending on cost.

The other "drop-in" solutions didn't seem to be anything TOO complicated, so I thought I could get my head around the electronics and build some of my own, of a similar quality. Yours are on actual PCBs and use components that I've never even heard of, and I think that's getting a little over my head.

I think I'll still keep working on my project, mainly because I want to see it through, and if the worst happens and I blow up my receiver I'm only out $15. If I can make them work properly with no damage to the unit I'll be a pretty happy camper and feel like I learned and accomplished something. But I would be very interested to see how this works out if KKnight installs a set, please post pics for us if you do!

Oh! Ckeeler, what did you use for the connections? I haven't been able to figure out how to get mine into the sockets, short of breaking some fuses and recycling their end caps to solder to my little board. Is there something I can actually buy and use for that, or have you made your own?

P.S. Those 939 meters look beautiful in the pic you posted.
 
OJ Bartley said:
CKeeler, now THAT is a nice solution. That's pretty much what I was hoping to do myself, and I think it would be generous (to me) to compare my effort to yours as a fingerpainting to a Renoir. If I had known about these before, I likely would have gone that route, depending on cost.

The other "drop-in" solutions didn't seem to be anything TOO complicated, so I thought I could get my head around the electronics and build some of my own, of a similar quality. Yours are on actual PCBs and use components that I've never even heard of, and I think that's getting a little over my head.

I think I'll still keep working on my project, mainly because I want to see it through, and if the worst happens and I blow up my receiver I'm only out $15. If I can make them work properly with no damage to the unit I'll be a pretty happy camper and feel like I learned and accomplished something. But I would be very interested to see how this works out if KKnight installs a set, please post pics for us if you do!

Oh! Ckeeler, what did you use for the connections? I haven't been able to figure out how to get mine into the sockets, short of breaking some fuses and recycling their end caps to solder to my little board. Is there something I can actually buy and use for that, or have you made your own?

P.S. Those 939 meters look beautiful in the pic you posted.
Click to expand...

Yes, don't give up on your own efforts, just because you are this far into it if nothing else. It will be good to accomplish what you set out to do. But, like you say, if you had known about these......you would have never needed to start out down that road and your problem would have been solved from the get go.

As for the ends that snap into the holder? Simple.........it is 1/4" copper tubing, just like what you would get at a hardware store for the water line for an evaporative cooler. Its the EXACT same OD as a fuse/fuse lamp. I used to spend hrs cutting up 25ft rolls until I found a company that that cuts the tubing to my spec'd length and ships them back. Costs more, but it's my time that counts. I can't spend days cutting little tiny tubes anymore, I just don't have that kind of time, who does? :dunno: Maybe if I was only gonna make a handful.
 
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markthefixer said:
They are called by various names, but the voltage current curves are the same:

833-CLD20B-TP Current Limit Diode by Micro Commercial Components
610-CMJH150 Current Limit Diode by Central Semiconductor
954-S-183T Current Regulative Diode by Semitec
Click to expand...

Could be, I don't know. I have never looked at the data sheets for any of those. It's not what I use.

Incidentally, the technology used in the parts I use I believe is still patent pending, maybe they have finally gotten their non-provisional patent already, I am not sure.
 
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KKnight, you mentioned "patent pending" earlier in the thread, which means the holder has a "provisional" patent, which is basically like a learners permit before you get your real drivers license, to put it in lay. The patent for the semiconductors is not mine at all.

The "design" for the lamp layout, using those semi's in them along with the board and track layout ect, basically the lamp design.....is something I currently hold a provisional patent on.
 
I hate to bust your bubble, but look at the

833-CLD20B-TP Current Limit Diode by Micro Commercial Components

datasheet, they include a 120v AC circuit using a diode bridge rectifier, one CLD and they calculate 30 leds in a string ...

prior art claim.

I sympathize, I have had some good (i thought original) ideas in my time, they all went *poof* on the prior art discovery process. :tears:

There's only one "good" one (of my ideas) left.
 
I'm currently working on a Marantz 2330B that my present LED solution looks fine for the tuner display, but is lacking for the meters. I'd like to try a couple of these in this application and see how they look.
 
Wow, those look pretty snazzy too MTF. I may try some, I dunno, they are more pricey. And I gotta look at the datasheet closer when I get more time, they seem to be a different package design, which if so, might require a redesign of the pcb pad layout, which I have no reason to do.

Niffty though, I'll check some out maybe, they would absolutely work the same way the others do.
 
CKeeler said:
Wow, those look pretty snazzy too MTF. I may try some, I dunno, they are more pricey. And I gotta look at the datasheet closer when I get more time, they seem to be a different package design, which if so, might require a redesign of the pcb pad layout, which I have no reason to do.

Niffty though, I'll check some out maybe, they would absolutely work the same way the others do.
Click to expand...

If it's not broke don't fix it CK.
Thanks again for making all our PM discussions public, and to provide a 'service' and product commonly wanted and needed. If you hadn't contacted me, the old thread my son started, as well as a gaping hole in what's needed and available would still be in complete limbo, full of nothing but theory and experimentation.

Will post feedback and some pics if I can when I receive and get the two sets installed.
 
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