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Dual 1219/1229 vs Dual 1229Q

NoTransistors

NoTransistors

Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
I have always suspected that the arm on the 1219/1229 sounds better than the less-rigid/ lighter-mass 'Q' arm. The 1219 and 1229 and 1229Q share 99% of the chassis parts. The 1229 adds a strobe. The 1229Q adds a 'better', lighter arm, and low-capacitance wiring.
I have both my new garage sale find 1219 and my 1229Q hooked to The Fisher. Both have a V15III.
The comparison is startling. The higher-mass/more rigid arm has more bass, more detail, better placement of instruments, silent background [even though the 'Q' also seems quiet, this seems like a different type of quiet], and a host of other nice attributes.
Wait until I damp the platter, as I do with all my units!!!
Also, even though rumble specs are basically the same, fewer chassis resonances reach the ears.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop
 
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In my two main systems, I use a 701 in one, and a 1219 in the other. It's a toss up which one is my favorite. Besides the sound quality, I like the build quality of these two the best. One little thing that is a big thing to me - the control levers on these two are cast metal, not plastic. The 1229 & Q's are plastic. A couple of things about the 1219: 1. On early models, in multi play, the cueing is inoperative by design. They re-designed that & fixed that on models with s/n higher that 141,000. An easy way to tell by just looking at it is to look at the chrome screw to the immediate left of the anti-skating control. This screw adjusts the height of the tonearm when cued up. Anyway, if you see the chrome head of the screw sticking up about 1/4" from the chassis, it's the later design. The early design's screw is recessed under the chassis. There are a few other minor changes, but this is the most obvious. 2. About those cast metal levers, at about S/N 420,000, they did in fact switch switch to plastic levers, through the rest of the production run (about another 60,000 units). They're pretty easy to spot - the grease hardens and somebody wonders "Gee - why won't the speed adjust?" SNAP. Ebay time.
 
Seth or Bill,
Its nice to see this comparison. I have been wondering what I might be missing with my 1219 comapred to the 1229 or 1229Q.
Have either of you rewired the tonearm on the 1219? I'm wondering how good the existing wire is. I get a little bit of crackle when I first move the tonearm into position. I'm not sure if this is the headshell contacts or something in the wiring.

Steve
 
I have 1229 waiting for a cartridge adapter. I have seen mention of the strobe as a Q feature. Mine has a strobe that you have look down through a lens to see. Would this put in the Q group, or is this a later upgrade? I do not see anything on the unit or manual that shows it to be a Q. Mine also has the flip down front accessory panel.

Thanks, and sorry for the hi-jack.

Dan
 
The 1229 is a 1219 with plastic knobs and a strobe. My garage-find 1219 has the improved innards and metal knobs.

Also, I have a 701. A direct-drive: it got me all excited.
The sound doesn't come close to these three idlers. So, there it sits in a closet.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the two shielded cables in the older arm, unless a conductor is broken. Rarely happens.

Having had several 1219 models pass through my workshop, I have also concluded that its motor runs hotter. Thought it was my imagination, until this A-B test.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop
 
My early model 1219 has plastic controls, and yes the speed selector is busted off. I set her to 33 and I am ok. I agree with the nice bass quality, possable a touch better than the 1019 I have next to it, longer arm helps I guess. I do not like the fact that the platter turns when the arm is cued up over it, have to unplug to play with overhang and properly set track weight. I need to put the power cord thru the receiver so I do not have to reach around to find the power plug.
 
sssand2 said:
Seth or Bill,
Its nice to see this comparison. I have been wondering what I might be missing with my 1219 comapred to the 1229 or 1229Q.
Have either of you rewired the tonearm on the 1219? I'm wondering how good the existing wire is. I get a little bit of crackle when I first move the tonearm into position. I'm not sure if this is the headshell contacts or something in the wiring.

Steve
Click to expand...


Steve:

The problem you describe happens in 1209's and 1219's. Here's the problem: The tonearm wiring gets tired where it constantly pivots, but is still good. I believe it develops a a bit of an "open" in the ground shielding, but cannot be sure. I've developed the following fix:

1. Remove the ground wire from the turntable - completely.

2. Open up the muting switch on the underside (that silver or gold colored case that the wires go to) - it just pops off.

3. As you are facing it, you will see the 4 solder terminals that the wires junction into - de-solder the left hand (ground) wires, and de-solder the little holes that the wires were soldered to.

4. With a new wire, run a jumper wire through the two terminals, and then solder it to that 3 eared post mounted to the chassis (you always wondered what that was there for). Re-solder the two tonearm leads. Be careful - these wires are fragile.

5. Put it back together. Grounding is now achieved through the RCA connections to your phono input.

Again, I'm not sure why it works, but it does!

boh(patent pending, all rights reserved)hey
 
rocdad said:
I have 1229 waiting for a cartridge adapter. I have seen mention of the strobe as a Q feature. Mine has a strobe that you have look down through a lens to see. Would this put in the Q group, or is this a later upgrade? I do not see anything on the unit or manual that shows it to be a Q. Mine also has the flip down front accessory panel.

Thanks, and sorry for the hi-jack.

Dan
Click to expand...


Dan,

I'm sure that your's is the 1229. On the faceplate, it will say either "1229" or "1229Q".
 
In the interest of keeping this neat thread going...

Two of the six plastic pickup heads that I got last Sunday are of the older design. Rather than utilizing the better spring-loaded pins for contact, they use springy copper-colored leafs.

For some reason they turn black with age, and become poor conductors. But they do polish up well with Noxon, and sound just fine. Equal attention must be paid to the contact plate inside the alloy arm head.

These things are the cause of much agida amongst Dual owners. Keep them polished. Never use a pen eraser or sand paper.

Seth
Forever Analog And Covered In Parrot Poop
 
The Duals I have been able to compare with the same cartridge and preamp (Shure V15 V-MR and Adcom GTP400) are the 1229, 1246, 510, and 504. In my experience, the 510 is the quietest. However, the best bass by far is with the 1229.

Cartridges I've used on the 1229 in 34 years have been:

Stanton 681EE
ADC XLM
ADC XLM II
ADC XLM III
ADC ZLM
ADC 25
Stanton 881s (friend's)
Pickering XSV3000 (friend's)
Shure V15 IV (friend's)
Shure V15 V MR
Shure M97xE
Grado Blue

The best sounding was probably the XLM III. However it was the worst tracker of all. The ZLM was a better tracker but did not sound quite as real. The V15VMR is the best of the lot all things considered. I also like the M97xE, preferring it to the Grado. I never liked the V15IV or any of the earlier Shures such as the M91E or V15II, much preferring the ADCs at the time. The Stantons and Pickerings were disappointing. The original XLM was probably the best sounding cartridge in its time, much better than the Stanton 681EE. I wish I had tried the Ortofon VMS20.

Fernando



Fernando
 
Norm,

There is a tiny p.c. board in the arm, that mates with the contacts on the plastic headshell.
The traces are silver-plated, and must be kept polished.
The R.C.A. sockets under-chassis are silver-plated as well.
So is the muting switch, but it is best to leave that alone.

Because the Dual 1219 and 1229 are virtually identical, they must sound alike.

Bill, I use Noxon '7 Metal polish'. Sometimes I follow this with vodka, as it removes any residue, and goes well with orange juice. Drug store alcohol does leave stuff behind.

The 701 is really, really quiet, but there is more to a good turntable than lack of rumble.

Idlers rule, but only if they are fairly quiet.

As I previously posted, the Shure ML140HE [or for that matter, any other high-end Shure with a damped brush], can track a rollercoaster, when fitted to the low-mass arm of the Dual 1229Q.

I remember speaking to the engineer behind the V15 Types I, II ,and III [a Mr. Kita], and he stated that they attempted to design a suspension way more compliant that that marketed. It was too impractical, as a butterfly landing near the turntable would unseat the needle [not a direct quote].


Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop
 
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