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Bozak mid-range 209-A vs. 209-B vs. 209-C

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...for a peaceful mind...
I'm purchasing a pair of Bozka Urban 302-A speakers. They have the Tobin mods, except that the midrange driver is still the 209-A. The recommendation is to replace the A's with 209-B's. I've been keeping my eyes on eBay, and the B's have been going for quite a bit lately (one pair over $150 last week). There are 3 pairs of 209-C's up right now. I haven't been able to find any discussion about the relative merits of the A's, B's and C's. Anyone have any experience and thoughts?

Thanks in advance!
 
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You mention you have the Tobin Modded XO's. Easy as Mr. Tobin is to visit with, I suggest you get in touch with him. I'd live with the Urban's for awhile before getting the "B's".
pc
 
B209 - original paper mid. decent but the metal ones are better

B209A - has the foam dampening ring which degrades over time. not recommended

b209b - no longer needs the foam dampening ring. alnico magnet. awesome driver!

b209c - same as the b209b, but with a ceramic magnet. they sound extremely similar to the b209b. so, good too!

see ya,
Robby
 
Thanks for the info. Sorry I haven't posted again sooner, but I had to change my email address in the midst of the recent server migration. I couldn't post until tonight.

Well I brought the Urbans home over the weekend. Vocals are very forward. Highs and lows more layed back. A pot to adjust tweeter levels were added as part of the modifcations, so after awhile, I'll pull the backs off and see what impact that has. I was planning on living with the 209-A's for awhile. No rush to upgrade per se.
 
cool!

the highs are laid back, the lows aren't boomy and bloated, but if there's bass in the music, you will feel it. the woofers are very fast.

if you want more tweeter, here's my recipe:

change the 25ohm resistor and 2uf cap in the tweeter network to 20ohm/2.5uf. so the tweeters will go a little lower and louder. put spacers under the bottome tweeter screws to tilt them up a bit to ear level. don't tilt back the whole cabinet because it puts the mids off axis.

listen with the grills off. big difference to my ears. just leave the screws off the grills and slide them in place when you are done listening.

lastly, there's NOTHING you can do to make the tweeters more extended. by their design, they roll off after 12k and don't have much beyond 15k. the common misconception is that you can tweak the crossover for more extension. it's just not possiible. but, who the heck hears beyond 15k anyways?

see ya,
Robby

Searching said:
Thanks for the info. Sorry I haven't posted again sooner, but I had to change my email address in the midst of the recent server migration. I couldn't post until tonight.

Well I brought the Urbans home over the weekend. Vocals are very forward. Highs and lows more layed back. A pot to adjust tweeter levels were added as part of the modifcations, so after awhile, I'll pull the backs off and see what impact that has. I was planning on living with the 209-A's for awhile. No rush to upgrade per se.
 
the Bozaks are definitly laid back, but I owned a pair of Symphonies for about 6 months and enjoyed my time with them. They had the metal midrange, I'm pretty sure it was the B. I was told by a couple sources to avoid the paper mid like the plague.

seemed to me, and others, that the metal mid was where alot of the Bozak magic came from. talk to the Bozak group on the Yahoo forums. they were EXTREMELY helpful to me when I needed assistance.
 
Raising the tweeters with washers seems like an interesting idea. Just enough to get them pointed toward ear level. I'll have to try that at some point.

I've seen references to people actually pulling the tweeter assembly, and mounting it in it's own box on top of the cabinets. This may seem simplistic, but I've kind've wondered how much impact that tweeter assembly sitting in front of the woofer has on the bass. I can't claim much experience getting down to the technical, knitty gritty of speaker design, though.

Haven't pulled the grills off. Yet!
 
I'm really intrigued to hear the 209-B. I've been really amazed at how forward my speakers are with the A's. Maybe too forward to my ears, or at least in comparison to the other speakers I've been listening to over the years. I'm not sure I'd like the mids out even more. But, I'm still listening. I think it's going to be a jazz evening at my place tonight!
 
I allways refer folks to this very informative Bozak thread http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=75950&highlight=Bozak

I was introduced to Bozak speakers by AK member Rybeam, who brought a pair to a listening "get together" at my house. I'm not sure what model they were, but I remember standing there looking at (and listening to) them with my head cocked and eyes focused. I started looking in the usual places, and a few months later found a pair of 302A Urbans on CL. I lucked out and got them. When I got them home and hooked them up, my joy turned to sadness as the tweeters screeched, and mids squaked horribly. :tears: I actually thought the tweeters had been damaged somehow, or were blown. I figured I'd give them a chance and rework the crossovers. That's when I found the above thread and performed the Tobin mods. The results were nothing short of amazing. Simply put, I have no doubt that these will be in my custody right up to the day I have "the big one". I attribute their wonderful sound to the AL mid, and of course the allmost magic woofer. I have never heard a better low to mid volume speaker for Jazz. Ok, I'm done :D Jay
 
I'm reviving this thread after a few days researching some Bozak B-302-a speakers. I found a recent story about Rudy Bozak and wanted to share it:

There are many people who have left their indelible mark on the study and appreciation of high fidelity sound reproduction.

In my last column, I talked about Emory Cook and his famous Rail Dynamic, one of the tracks from his highly acclaimed 78rpm vinyl album “Sounds of Our Time.” I wasn’t fortunate enough to actually hear it, but those who did were unanimous in marveling at its depth and the realism of his binaural sound reproduction technique. Between 1952 and 1966, Emory recorded, manufactured, and distributed some of the best audio recordings in the world. In 1990, he and his wife Martha donated their record company, master tapes, patents and papers to the Smithsonian Institution.

The source of sound, the vinyl album, is just a part of an entire sound system, which can only do justice to an excellently pressed vinyl when all its parts work together seamlessly. It’s impossible to appreciate an album’s magnificence without other sound gadgets giving it the necessary boost. The most critical of these gadgets are the loudspeakers. A good system must be built around them. This is the philosophy which Emory himself followed assiduously.

The story goes that Emory had to look for a speaker system capable of reproducing the entire dynamic range of his speeding train recording. He found it courtesy of his friend, Rudy Bozak.

Rudy left his job at Milwaukee’s Allen-Bradley Company, Cinaudagraph, and instrument makers C. G. Conn and Wurlitzer to peddle his first loudspeaker. It was told that he traveled from Boston to Buffalo, and traversed the coast from New York to Philadelphia, and made only a single sale. He was turning 40, but remained undeterred in making a dent in the then-flourishing high fidelity sound industry.

His big break finally came in 1949, during the “Second Annual Convention of the Audio Engineering Society” (AES) at Hotel New Yorker. Rudy was invited to participate in the audio fair. Although he didn’t buy space to showcase his creation (which was housed in a kettle drum), Rudy was told that a live comparison of loudspeakers would be held in the hotel ballroom, and AES wanted to hear what he had to offer. When interviewed later by the press, he said, “We put our 201 there, and it stood up with the best in the business at that time. There was Klipsch, Altec’s 604, JBL, the names that prevailed at that time, and we made a definite impression.”

Rudy was humble enough to declare that what really made him was his friendship with Emory. Both idealistic, their professional relationship clicked, and Emory and Rudy stole the limelight from other big names in loudspeaker design.

It was Emory’s penchant for dramatizing things, Rudy pointed out, that kept them on their toes. In 1951, Emory told Rudy that they had to steal the show during that year’s Audio Fair. The former asked the latter to come up with a loudspeaker with good bass and highs, which would enable Emory to flaunt his Rail Dynamics. It was this recording which caused quite a stir in Pound Ridge in New York’s Westchester County, where Emory’s neighbors would be roused from sleep by the distinct sounds of approaching and departing trains, in their quiet town, miles away from the next railroad track.

The recording did the trick again during the 1951 Audio Fair. Hotel guests were amazed by the rumbling sound wafting down the corridors and from around the corners. “Where are those railroad trains?” they wondered.

The dynamic duo surpassed this feat in the following year’s Audio Fair, by providing attendees with a spectacular bass. Emory had just recorded the works of English organist Reginald Foort, who had begun playing as an accompanist to silent movies in 1926, at the tail end of the silent era, and was a legend among enthusiasts of theater or cinema organ.

At a session in Boston’s Symphony Hall, Emory told Reginald that he would attempt to record him playing at 16 cycles. At that time, recording a tone that low had not yet been done. Reginald agreed.

Rudy’s role was to design a speaker that was capable of reproducing tones down to 19Hz to accurately reflect Reginald’s artistry. He then built a special pair of speakers, each of which had two cabinets. The lower housing, which contained eight 12-inch woofers, measured four feet wide, five feet high, and 21 inches deep. The second enclosure held two six-inch midrange drivers and a tweeter cluster.

Those who had heard the organ playing would gush at the thought — or more accurately, the feel — of the pedal frequencies swathing the entire hotel lobby. Emory and Rudy commented that “It’s not something you could resolve and say, ‘Oh, that’s an organ’ or whatever, but it’s strange how (the sound) would travel around the hotel up and down the elevator shafts then come out in the lobby. A feeling — not music, a feeling….”

Although the Concert Grand (CG) is Rudy’s grand achievement, the Bozak sound is also available in his smaller designs. The Concerto B-302A offers the CG’s midrange in a much smaller package. The Symphony B-4000A is closer in performance to the CG, but in a size that’s slightly easier to handle.

* * *

For comments or questions, please e-mail me at audioglow@yahoo.com or at vphl@hotmail.com. You can also visit www.wiredstate.com for quick answers to your audio concerns.
 
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