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light dimmer as a variac?

gadget73

junk junkie
Subscriber
Just a random thought, could one use a standard light dimmer as a variac? Most of them seem to be rated for a few hundred watts, which seems to be enough for a lot of equipment. Would that work?

What about using one as a temperature control for a soldering iron? I know a good iron with a control is a better solution, but I'm just tossing ideas around in my boredom.
 
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I'm pretty sure some light dimmers just pulse the power-- one half power is off half the time, on the other half. It's not a transformer. I think.
If that's true you definitely could NOT use it as a variac.
 
Just a random thought, could one use a standard light dimmer as a variac? Most of them seem to be rated for a few hundred watts, which seems to be enough for a lot of equipment. Would that work?
No. Dimmers use a triac to vary the duty cycle of the AC line going into the gear. Not very equipment-friendly.
What about using one as a temperature control for a soldering iron? I know a good iron with a control is a better solution, but I'm just tossing ideas around in my boredom.
Maybe. Might be touchy to adjust.
 
Heck, so if my Variac is rated for the wattage, I could use it as a control for my soldering irons? I think I'll give the dimmer a try too (for a soldering iron control). Nice brainstorming :thmbsp:
 
My soldering iron warms up REALLY fast at 142V... it's plugged into the variac when I don't need it for something else.

A light dimer could be used for a soldering iron, but won't work with anything with a transformer.
 
Ah, ok. I'd never studied how they worked internally, I was just bored. I think I've got a dimmer laying around, along with a few junction boxes. I'll try rigging one up to my cheapo $5 soldering iron and see what results I get. Worst case, I'll have a dimmer I can use for the clip-on light over my work area.
 
Light dimmer is excellent for solder iron (resistive) heat control. No worry there.

It may work as a variac for volt control in audio service, but it may miss behave from the inductive kick from the transformer. It depends on the triac rating and the kick. It is cheap enough to worth a try.
 
I teach classes on, amongst other things, chargers for stationary batteries. Most of these chargers use phase angle control which is what a light dimmer is. In my classes I ask people how a light dimmer works. I usually get a snicker or two because most people think that a dimmer is just a reostat. My standard response " have you ever seen a 600 watt reostat? They don't fit very well in a standard box."

A dimmer would work well to lower the temperature of a soldering iron or keep it from cycling as much. A dimmer is not a good substitute for a variac as it doesn't limit current. Actually, I prefer a series light bulb over a variac when bringing up an amp. A light bulb will respond faster than the hand on the variac when trouble arises.
 
A variac does not limit current either. A good thing to try is to put a bulb in series with the dimmer. Just a suggestion on something to try.
 
>Most of these chargers use phase angle control which is what a light dimmer is.

More than 30 years ago, I built a regulated power supply with triac on the transformer primary for a gas discharge tube.
It just needs the right Triac rating and some sniper circuit to make it reliable.
 
Because a light dimmer literally chops the AC waveform into pieces, it generates a massive amount of harmonic energy (hash). Put an AM radio near a light dimmer and the effect will become clear. Spikes from this chopping of the waveform can interact with the inductance of a transformer primary to yield highly undesirable effects, especially if the secondary is unloaded, requiring snubber diodes and capacitors to reduce these phenomena.

Stick an oscilloscope probe on the output of a light dimmer, and be prepared for a truly scary waveform.

What you want is less voltage with a clean sinewave (variac) not the same peak-to-peak voltage with reduced duty cycle.

I would NEVER take an old tube unit, for example, that needed to be run up slowly on a variac to reform the electrolytics, and hook it up to a light dimmer.

Fred
 
In my classes I ask people how a light dimmer works. I usually get a snicker or two because most people think that a dimmer is just a reostat. My standard response " have you ever seen a 600 watt reostat? They don't fit very well in a standard box."
Does that not depend upon the dimmer? I've a Superior Electric Luxtrol D2000 17 amp light dimmer on my desk lamp here (no such thing as overkill) and it is just a giant rheostat. It looks like a much larger (and more mad scientist like) version of my 3 amp variac. So, not all light dimmers are automatically not rheostats, just the cheap, domestic versions aren't. My variac doesn't have a current limiter either, so would it not work to simply add a lightbulb in series with the device being connected to the light dimmers?

The D2000 is the older version of the small one pictured here and is taller.
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- JP
 
Yes, I understand there are dimmers that use a large reostat, although I've not seen any. One application is for recording studios for the exact reason that Fred Longworth mentions above.

On second thought, are they really a reostat? A variac would seem far more practical as a reostat would have to be calculated on a specific number of lights/watts.
 
A Rheostat is a resistive ratio device - whereas a Variac is an inductive turns ratio device - rather different in operation.

As Fred wisely says - DO NOT ever use a light dimmer to vary the power to anything other than a resistive load - i.e. light bulb, heater, soldering iron, etc, I have seen those scope waveforms - quite fascinating to observe but dangerous for inductive devices - especially precious audio equipment transformers.

John
 
I've got some waveforms from the dimmer that I'll post when I can get to them. In the mean time, what is the concern with driving a transformer with it. I wouldn't do it because of the RF that's generated, but I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work. The only difference between a light dimmer and a speed control for a fan is the direction of the controlling pot. A dimmer starts out at minimum voltage and a fan control starts at maximum voltage to get the motor started. Since a fan motor is an inductive device like a transformer, the only problem I could think of would be a possible DC offset due to non symmetrical firing of the triac/diac. I've got a control for outdoor low voltage lighting and as I recall it's pretty much the same as a standard dimmer.
 
The thing that is dangerous is the rate of change of voltage from the "chopped" sinusoidal mains waveform, this is where the hash & harmonic energy Fred spoke of comes from. Triacs are designed to cut the voltage dead on both half cycles of the mains waveform, in response to a control signal. If you apply this mains voltage to a transformer, it will have a similar effect to what you see from the high voltage terminal of the ignition coil of a car - big spikes of voltage, uncontrolled and high enough to severely damage anything connected to the secondary windings.

I reality doing this would probably blow up the dimmer/triac, but not before doing damage to the rest.

As for a fan motor - its just an inductive winding which creates a magnetic field so it only has to worry about itself, as long as it is allowed to spin, no harm will come to it from using Triac power control.

John
 
That does propose some solutions - if welding is your scene - none of them quite fit your proposed use.

The fact remains that to control voltage in this way you need to switch (chop) it. When you do this you introduce very high rates of change of voltage, thus driving inductors into uncharted magnetic territory. :nono: Great "wodges" of back EMF and extremely rapidly changing magnetic fields are not conducive to the longevity of our precious audio gear. (Obviously with a transformer you need a slowly ~50/60Hz changing magnetic field :D).

On the other hand, try it - let me know what happens :scratch2:

John
 
Phase control turn on to a transformer does not create abnormal high secondary volt. The transformer turn ratio comes in and produce normal secondary volt. The diode and capacitor combination integrates the area under the voltage curve into a dc level. As the duty cycle is less than 100%, the result dc is less. That is how varying dc comes from phase control on the primary.
In auto coil the high volt effect comes from big secondary turn ratio first, and DC current flowing in the primary is abruptly cut off to create the inductive kick. This is different than phase control where volt is applied and primary current is ramping up according to load.
As light dimmer may not have rating for a possible inductive kick, I think putting a bulb in series with the dimmer is a good thing to try. In the worse case if the dimmer died as a short, it falls back to become the poor man's variac. It the thing works, you have the equivalence of a variac with current limit.
You do have high freq harmonics going into the 120 ac line. It is a don't care unless an AM radio is near by. In which case, a dual inductor and a cap can be placed in line with the dimmer input to filter out the noise. Next inprovement is enclose the guts into a metal box to shield off radiated noise.
 
The horrible quality waveforms in the transformer primary do not yield clean sinewaves in the secondary. In fact, they yield dirty waveforms in the secondary.

Now, if the secondary "looks into" a well-regulated power supply, with good filtering prior to the regulators, including film capacitors to blunt the hash, you may be able to get away with lousy secondary waveforms.

But I would not connect this straight to an output stage in an amplifier, whether solid-state or tube.

The only high-fidelity circuit I know which uses a triac to control power transformer power is Bob Carver's magnetic field amplifier design. In this design, a circuit in the amplifiers samples signal size and provides a feedback pulse to a triac. The triac varies the duty cycle of a "bucking" winding -- for want of a better name -- in the power transformer. The triac is not directly connected to either the functional primary or the functional secondary.

* * * * *

If a lamp dimmer fires into a standard power transformer, and, for whatever reason, the secondary is unloaded, the primary will change into a choke. This will create especially large transients on the AC line.

But whether it is large or small, this hash affects AM radio reception and, to a lesser degree, television reception. Moreover, this interference can be so powerful that your neighbors next door will also experience this interference.

* * * * *

Engineering data sheets dealing with triac power control often refer to a method called Proportional Interval control. In this design, rather than chopping waveforms to pieces having varying duty cycles, a special controller circuit will remove entire cycles of the AC line voltage. If you remove every other cycle, for example, the power provided to a circuit will drop to exactly half; and the voltage generated in a transformer secondary, will appropriate changes in the filter constants, will also be approximately half. Since waves are not being chopped, hash is not generated.

Fred
 
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