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My first PCB design. Not complicated, but first.

scootchu

Dear Sir or Madman
I am going to build this bridge adapter come Hell or high water.

I am pretty sure this has no errors in the design as it's so simple, but if someone could look at it and check my work I would appreciate it. I plan to install this board, actually two of these circuits in my preamp and draw power from the preamp to power it. I am not sure where that point will be in the Preamp circuit, but one step at a time.
bridgeadapter-1.jpg
 
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I might try and shorten your traces and beef them up a bit

With thin traces most of your copper is left in the etchant.
 
Looks pretty good. Here's a couple ideas to think about. I agree with soundmotor about beefing up traces, especially the PWR-, PWR+, and ground. Better than beefing up traces, use area fills - especially for the ground. I would give additional clearance between PWR- and PWR+ connectors, to ensure no power supply shorting could happen. In fact, PWR+ is rather long and convoluted, so I'd put it's connection just north of pins 1 and 8 of IC1. Likewise, PWR- could be just west of pins 2 and 4 of IC1. I would definately put some capacitance on the supply lines. Perhaps 10uF 35V tants for each supply to ground where the connections come on board, then some bypassing next to IC1. At very minimum, 0.1uF 50V ceramics. An additional 0.047uF 50V ceramic in parallel to the 0.1uF would be nice.

You may have gotten this circuit someplace else, and there are probably good reasons for the values chosen, but I'd suggest changing the two 100k resistors to something smaller. With 100k in the feedback, self-noise of this large value may be noticable. With 2.2k in the positive leg to ground on the inverter, changing both 100k resistors to 4.7k would be nice. BUT, this then lowers the input impedance to just under 5k. The circuit as you have it is quite benign 100k input impedance. If the driving source feeding this board has a healthy output, a 5k input impedance on this circuit shouldn't be a problem. If you are driving this from a tube preamp, leave the 100k resistors in there.

Finally, I'd suggest putting the 100 output resistors inside the feedback loop. As it is now, the output impedance is purdy durn close to 100 ohms. With the output resistors inside the feedback look, this will then look very close to an ideal voltage source, thus making the cables you use on the output nearly sonically invisible.

Oh yeah, if you move R3 vertically just south of IC1, then the output trace from the non-inverting section won't have to serpentine all over the place.
 
Wow Thanks guys! That is a lot to digest, but I will see what I can do to make the changes. The circuit is from: http://sound.westhost.com/project14.htm

But I wanted to at least make the PCB design with the first figure on that webpage and now I guess design the one in figure 2 with the added components that you guys mentioned. It takes a while with me that's for sure.
 
Board size is about 54mm x 38mm

[edit]
Sorry, don't use that.... I just woke up and copied the schematic in to Eagle slightly wrong haha. I'll correct it after dinner.

Actually I just realised what I did. There's two different versions on the page. I did the second one where it looks like you want the first one. Minimal change is required to achieve the second one if you want that too!

[edit]
This one should be right!



 
Last edited:
Board size is about 54mm x 38mm

[edit]
Sorry, don't use that.... I just woke up and copied the schematic in to Eagle slightly wrong haha. I'll correct it after dinner.

Actually I just realised what I did. There's two different versions on the page. I did the second one where it looks like you want the first one. Minimal change is required to achieve the second one if you want that too!

[edit]
This one should be right!



Thanks,
It seems as though I am supposed to use the second one anyway. It is a better design and handles different impedances better. Could you sent me the .sch or brd file so I could look at it in Eagle?
 
It should be attached.

If you're making the PCB at home and want to keep it simple or only have single sided material then you can just forget about the top (red) ground layer, press the display button on the toolbar and deselect the top layer.

Press the rats nest button to fill in the copper pours.

I have also run it through the drill-aid script with 0.7mm.
 

Attachments

Cool thanks! I am grasping Eagle very slowly. Do you draw your traces or do you use auto? How do you get them thicker? I changed settings in the DRC, but they don't do the traces like yours.
 
Cool thanks! I am grasping Eagle very slowly. Do you draw your traces or do you use auto? How do you get them thicker? I changed settings in the DRC, but they don't do the traces like yours.

Not a problem.

I draw the traces myself. To be honest I don't yet know how to use DRC properly.

If you're using the back-annotation feature of Eagle (you have a consistent schematic which the board is made from) then you can draw your own traces by using the 'Route' button, and you can remove them using the 'Rip up' button. Both can be located on the tool bar, route is a red coloured button and next to it should be a very similar yellow coloured one, which is rip up.

Using Route / Rip up with a schematic will not allow the traces to differ from the schematic in terms of component connections, which is handy :) To draw a trace this way you first want to roughly layout all the components and try and ignore the mess of yellow lines. The yellow lines tell you what connects to what, but can be confusing. Once laid out, hit the rats nest button and the yellow lines should hopefully be a little bit neater. Then you can use the Route tool, click on each yellow line and draw a trace. The pads which need connecting should light up to tell you exactly where you need to route traces!

To change the width (and various other parameters) of an already laid trace you can use the 'Change' button on the toolbar. Click it, hover over Width, select the new desired width and then click on the traces you want to change!

To change the width of a new trace, when you click Route a new toolbar should appear at the top of the screen. There will be a drop down box there which allows you to choose the width! :)

Hope that helps
 
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The DRC function doesn't actually *change* anything about the layout. Instead, it's a way to automatically check that your board doesn't require anything that the PCB fabricator can't do. For example, Advanced Circuits (4pcb.com) lists the following design rules for its basic fabrication services:

• Min qty 3
• Lead time 5 days
• 2-layers, FR-4, 0.062", 1 oz cu plate
• Lead free solder finish
• Min. 0.006" line/space
• Min. 0.015" hole size
• All holes plated
• Green LPI mask
• White legend (1 or 2 sides)
• 1 part number per order (extra $50 charge for multiple parts or step & repeat applies)
• Max size 60 sq. inches
• No slots (or overlapping drill hits)
• No internal routing or scoring (including mouse bites)
• Overall dimensions individually routed

I bolded the ones that are specifically applicable for the DRC. Translation:
• No two traces (or pads, or whatever) can be closer than .006". if they are, the manuf. can't guarantee that they'll actually be separated properly. Also, no trace can be less than .006" wide.
• No hole can be smaller than .015"

(as an aside: .001" is often called "1 mil", not to be confused with 1 millimeter. this is why you set the grid to 'mils' when you're doing layout -- but that's another topic.)

You put these types of parameters into the DRC, it will review your board, and tell you if the design violates these at any point. The DRC does this, in part, by looking at how the layers work (see below for info on that.) There's a bunch of other good stuff the DRC can check, too - but again, another time.

If it passes, you're more likely to end up with a working board. The next step is to generate the Gerber files for the CAM machines and send them off to the fab house. Advanced Circuits has an online DFM (design for manufacturing) check utility, which has a similar purpose to the DRC but looks at the CAM files directly -- but not all places have that kind of thing, and if you have DRC errors (or forget to check it) you're setting yourself up to have some non-functional boards delivered.

Some other points:

I might try and shorten your traces and beef them up a bit

With thin traces most of your copper is left in the etchant.

The practical downside to this is that the board takes longer to etch; as a result, the traces you do want are more likely to end up 'pitted' or otherwise imperfect, since the etchant has more time to eat away at (or under) the resist mask. This is more of a concern if you're etching it yourself, but still. There are other good reasons for this, more on that in a moment...

... Better than beefing up traces, use area fills - especially for the ground.
...
I would definately put some capacitance on the supply lines. Perhaps 10uF 35V tants for each supply to ground where the connections come on board, then some bypassing next to IC1. At very minimum, 0.1uF 50V ceramics. An additional 0.047uF 50V ceramic in parallel to the 0.1uF would be nice.

Also good points (as were the others I neglected to quote); seeing how this is a 'first PCB design' thread, here's some 'why':

* [Assuming you're doing a 2 layer board] having a 'fill' ground plane is a good idea because it ensures that any current has a good, short return path. If you run traces on the bottom, they'll have to cut into the plane; just make sure you don't have any long 'peninsulas' of ground plane.
* If you're just doing a single layer board, make the power/ground traces big to minimize resistive losses (good idea regardless) and increase current handling capability (remember, by kirchoff's current law, the power/ground traces carry as much current as the rest of the traces combined.)

* For components sensitive to fluctuations in supply voltage (read: IC's) you should always put decoupling caps (between V+ and Ground) as close as you can to the +V supply pins on the chip. If something big turns on and the supply voltage suddenly drops, without decoupling caps, the voltage ripple may result in logic errors or other erratic behavior from the chip.
* If you do have caps, during normal operation they will charge up to the supply voltage and stay there. So, if the supply voltage fluctuates suddenly, the stored charge flows out and helps keep the +V supply pin more stable. (kind of like the chip version of a power conditioner.)
* Having wide traces also helps out with this somewhat - charge can flow to/from where it's needed more easily.


misc other EAGLE things...

This might have been mentioned, but to get the big oddly-shaped fills, instead of running thick wires back and forth, use the polygon tool to create a shape. When you hit ratsnest, it'll get filled in. Use the 'name' tool, then click on the polygon (the edge thereof, not the fill) and set it to the same name as the trace you want it to be connected to. i.e. GND, or +5V. (The part name is how EAGLE determines what's part of the same electrical network, or 'net'. This is how the little yellow 'airwires' work. Play around with naming things the same and you'll see airwires pop up when you hit ratsnest... neat, eh?)

* 'route' is not the same as 'wire'. Route grabs an airwire and lays down a trace that's on the same net, whereas Wire just makes a new wire not pre-connected to a net.

* When routing airwires, you'll end up hitting Ratsnest really often. The actual primary function of that button can be described as "Draw Shortest Airwires". After you do a lot of routing/ripping up routes, you'll probably see what this means. (It also fills in polygons, cleans/redraws the screen, etc.)

oh boy, now that I have EAGLE open I'm remembering all sorts of useful tidbits...

* In my experience (yours may differ) the most useful grid setting is
Style: Lines
Size: 10 mil (remember 1 mil = 0.001" not 1mm!)
Multiple: 1
Alt: 5 mil
* This is good if you're working with standard/"hand-assembly" parts like DIP IC's, which are almost always on a .100" grid. Surface mount stuff can get really wacky (and/or metric), which is a pain.
* Note that there are two grids defined: when placing/moving a part, hold the ALT key to 'snap' onto the Alt grid. With the settings above, it's exactly half of the main grid, but if you need to, you can change it to a different unit system entirely, which is how you must route to pads of a different grid spacing.
* Note the little + marks in the center of the part, called the origin. That's what actually grabs on to the grid when you're moving the part, not the pins, which is helpful to know.


* Something I found helpful is the command line (the white bar at the top of the interface.) you can do everything from that, but two commands stick out in my mind:

1. "display". usage: "display layernum" to show a layer, "display -layernum" to turn it off. "display all" works, and ranges work too. (see note on layers below.) sure, you can do it with the Layers button, but this is faster once you know the layer numbers.

2. "assign". usage: "assign" by itself brings up the keyboard shortcut binding menu, or you can do it directly, i.e. "assign c+r route" makes CTRL+R the route command. a good set of shortcuts is INVALUABLE, it'll make layout ten times faster.


this post will go on forever if I let myself... i'm not going to get into the CAM side of things (much... although doing it well is nearly as much work as doing the layout in the first place, and about as important) but here's a bit about...

* Layers! There are some 'standard' layers which mean certain things in generating the CAM files. For basic stuff you only need to know about a few, so here's some important ones: (note: if a layer name begins with 't', it probably means top, and 'b' for bottom, and they come in pairs, so i'll just talk about them that way.)

• 1 through 16 are the top to bottom layers, respectively (but in a standard 2-layer board, you only use 1 = red = top and 16 = blue = bottom.)
• 17/pads and 18/vias are what they say they are.
• 19/unrouted is the airwires.
• 20/dimension is used to indicate the outside boundaries for the CAM.
• 23/25/27 are the origins/names/values for parts on the top. 24/26/28 are likewise for the bottom. 21 is a shortcut for the top ones, and 22 is a shortcut for the bottom ones.
• 29/30 = stop. this is the area where traces should not go, unless they connect to that pad.
• 31/32 = cream (only used when placing solder paste for SMT components)
• 39/40 = keepout. used with the autorouter to indicate large areas where the computer should not put traces. 41/42 (restrict) are something similar, but I don't remember exactly.
• 44/drills and 45/holes: what they say.

* There are some others, but nothing jumps out at me. Note that layers above 100 are not standardized - feel free to make your own (i.e. to indicate dimensions for an external attachment, etc.) Nothing on a layer above 100 will go into the CAM files. Conversely, don't change/delete/make new layers lower than 100.


* Oh, back on the topic of EAGLE usage: markiemrboo mentioned it above, but be sure to make friends with the 'Change' tool. It lets you modify pretty much any property of any item very easily. Select the tool, find the item from the drop-down, select the desired value, and then click on the part(s) you want to apply said value to. This is the best way to flip things between layers, change trace widths, etc.



All right, that's all I can type for now. Sorry if it's kind of jumbled... but I hope someone finds it useful! We should have a dedicated 'PCB design help' thread in here... I forgot how much I enjoy this stuff :P
 
The DRC function doesn't actually *change* anything about the layout. Instead, it's a way to automatically check that your board doesn't require anything that the PCB fabricator can't do. For example, Advanced Circuits (4pcb.com) lists the following design rules for its basic fabrication services:



I bolded the ones that are specifically applicable for the DRC. Translation:
• No two traces (or pads, or whatever) can be closer than .006". if they are, the manuf. can't guarantee that they'll actually be separated properly. Also, no trace can be less than .006" wide.
• No hole can be smaller than .015"

(as an aside: .001" is often called "1 mil", not to be confused with 1 millimeter. this is why you set the grid to 'mils' when you're doing layout -- but that's another topic.)

You put these types of parameters into the DRC, it will review your board, and tell you if the design violates these at any point. The DRC does this, in part, by looking at how the layers work (see below for info on that.) There's a bunch of other good stuff the DRC can check, too - but again, another time.

If it passes, you're more likely to end up with a working board. The next step is to generate the Gerber files for the CAM machines and send them off to the fab house. Advanced Circuits has an online DFM (design for manufacturing) check utility, which has a similar purpose to the DRC but looks at the CAM files directly -- but not all places have that kind of thing, and if you have DRC errors (or forget to check it) you're setting yourself up to have some non-functional boards delivered.

Some other points:



The practical downside to this is that the board takes longer to etch; as a result, the traces you do want are more likely to end up 'pitted' or otherwise imperfect, since the etchant has more time to eat away at (or under) the resist mask. This is more of a concern if you're etching it yourself, but still. There are other good reasons for this, more on that in a moment...



Also good points (as were the others I neglected to quote); seeing how this is a 'first PCB design' thread, here's some 'why':

* [Assuming you're doing a 2 layer board] having a 'fill' ground plane is a good idea because it ensures that any current has a good, short return path. If you run traces on the bottom, they'll have to cut into the plane; just make sure you don't have any long 'peninsulas' of ground plane.
* If you're just doing a single layer board, make the power/ground traces big to minimize resistive losses (good idea regardless) and increase current handling capability (remember, by kirchoff's current law, the power/ground traces carry as much current as the rest of the traces combined.)

* For components sensitive to fluctuations in supply voltage (read: IC's) you should always put decoupling caps (between V+ and Ground) as close as you can to the +V supply pins on the chip. If something big turns on and the supply voltage suddenly drops, without decoupling caps, the voltage ripple may result in logic errors or other erratic behavior from the chip.
* If you do have caps, during normal operation they will charge up to the supply voltage and stay there. So, if the supply voltage fluctuates suddenly, the stored charge flows out and helps keep the +V supply pin more stable. (kind of like the chip version of a power conditioner.)
* Having wide traces also helps out with this somewhat - charge can flow to/from where it's needed more easily.


misc other EAGLE things...

This might have been mentioned, but to get the big oddly-shaped fills, instead of running thick wires back and forth, use the polygon tool to create a shape. When you hit ratsnest, it'll get filled in. Use the 'name' tool, then click on the polygon (the edge thereof, not the fill) and set it to the same name as the trace you want it to be connected to. i.e. GND, or +5V. (The part name is how EAGLE determines what's part of the same electrical network, or 'net'. This is how the little yellow 'airwires' work. Play around with naming things the same and you'll see airwires pop up when you hit ratsnest... neat, eh?)

* 'route' is not the same as 'wire'. Route grabs an airwire and lays down a trace that's on the same net, whereas Wire just makes a new wire not pre-connected to a net.

* When routing airwires, you'll end up hitting Ratsnest really often. The actual primary function of that button can be described as "Draw Shortest Airwires". After you do a lot of routing/ripping up routes, you'll probably see what this means. (It also fills in polygons, cleans/redraws the screen, etc.)

oh boy, now that I have EAGLE open I'm remembering all sorts of useful tidbits...

* In my experience (yours may differ) the most useful grid setting is

* This is good if you're working with standard/"hand-assembly" parts like DIP IC's, which are almost always on a .100" grid. Surface mount stuff can get really wacky (and/or metric), which is a pain.
* Note that there are two grids defined: when placing/moving a part, hold the ALT key to 'snap' onto the Alt grid. With the settings above, it's exactly half of the main grid, but if you need to, you can change it to a different unit system entirely, which is how you must route to pads of a different grid spacing.
* Note the little + marks in the center of the part, called the origin. That's what actually grabs on to the grid when you're moving the part, not the pins, which is helpful to know.


* Something I found helpful is the command line (the white bar at the top of the interface.) you can do everything from that, but two commands stick out in my mind:

1. "display". usage: "display layernum" to show a layer, "display -layernum" to turn it off. "display all" works, and ranges work too. (see note on layers below.) sure, you can do it with the Layers button, but this is faster once you know the layer numbers.

2. "assign". usage: "assign" by itself brings up the keyboard shortcut binding menu, or you can do it directly, i.e. "assign c+r route" makes CTRL+R the route command. a good set of shortcuts is INVALUABLE, it'll make layout ten times faster.


this post will go on forever if I let myself... i'm not going to get into the CAM side of things (much... although doing it well is nearly as much work as doing the layout in the first place, and about as important) but here's a bit about...

* Layers! There are some 'standard' layers which mean certain things in generating the CAM files. For basic stuff you only need to know about a few, so here's some important ones: (note: if a layer name begins with 't', it probably means top, and 'b' for bottom, and they come in pairs, so i'll just talk about them that way.)

• 1 through 16 are the top to bottom layers, respectively (but in a standard 2-layer board, you only use 1 = red = top and 16 = blue = bottom.)
• 17/pads and 18/vias are what they say they are.
• 19/unrouted is the airwires.
• 20/dimension is used to indicate the outside boundaries for the CAM.
• 23/25/27 are the origins/names/values for parts on the top. 24/26/28 are likewise for the bottom. 21 is a shortcut for the top ones, and 22 is a shortcut for the bottom ones.
• 29/30 = stop. this is the area where traces should not go, unless they connect to that pad.
• 31/32 = cream (only used when placing solder paste for SMT components)
• 39/40 = keepout. used with the autorouter to indicate large areas where the computer should not put traces. 41/42 (restrict) are something similar, but I don't remember exactly.
• 44/drills and 45/holes: what they say.

* There are some others, but nothing jumps out at me. Note that layers above 100 are not standardized - feel free to make your own (i.e. to indicate dimensions for an external attachment, etc.) Nothing on a layer above 100 will go into the CAM files. Conversely, don't change/delete/make new layers lower than 100.


* Oh, back on the topic of EAGLE usage: markiemrboo mentioned it above, but be sure to make friends with the 'Change' tool. It lets you modify pretty much any property of any item very easily. Select the tool, find the item from the drop-down, select the desired value, and then click on the part(s) you want to apply said value to. This is the best way to flip things between layers, change trace widths, etc.



All right, that's all I can type for now. Sorry if it's kind of jumbled... but I hope someone finds it useful! We should have a dedicated 'PCB design help' thread in here... I forgot how much I enjoy this stuff :P


Wow! Thanks! My head is jumbled. It seems as though if you gave me a kit I could build this thing in 15 minutes, but when I have to design my own I get frustrated and give up. I have searched and searched looking for something concrete to reverse engineer, but have fallen short. The closest I got was a design that used balanced inputs and my simple brain could not comprehend the precedure to make the circuit using unbalanced.

I can only explain this weakness in my thinking by stating that I must have lost some cognitve function needed to complete this through multiple blows to my head. I kid you not, just ask Yamaha B-2. He will attest to my track record on a bicycle and the need for a helmet. Be nice Glenn!
 
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