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SX-850 recap parts list?

C

comrade_boris

Member
Hello fellow AKers!
I've decided that it's finally time to recap my 850. This will be my first recapping, so I thought I'd run my parts list past you all before I went crazy and just ordered the darn thing. Attached is a zipped Excel spreadsheet with the original capacitances and voltages of the electrolytics listed (as found in the manual), as well as the part (with capacitance and voltage) I've chosen for the recap. Most of the new caps are Nichicon UPW or UHE series caps. There's one high temp Xicon, because both the UPW and UHE caps for that value are out of stock. Some of the voltages jumped significantly (16v to 50v), based simply on what values I could find in new caps. Is that acceptable? Also, I only found a total of 34 electrolytic caps list in the manual. Can that really be all?
I'd greatly appreciate if some of you more experienced with recapping would look over the list, and make sure stupidity hasn't gotten the best of me. Thanks!
 

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comrade_boris said:
Hello fellow AKers!
I've decided that it's finally time to recap my 850. This will be my first recapping, so I thought I'd run my parts list past you all before I went crazy and just ordered the darn thing. Attached is a zipped Excel spreadsheet with the original capacitances and voltages of the electrolytics listed (as found in the manual), as well as the part (with capacitance and voltage) I've chosen for the recap. Most of the new caps are Nichicon UPW or UHE series caps. There's one high temp Xicon, because both the UPW and UHE caps for that value are out of stock. Some of the voltages jumped significantly (16v to 50v), based simply on what values I could find in new caps. Is that acceptable? Also, I only found a total of 34 electrolytic caps list in the manual. Can that really be all?
I'd greatly appreciate if some of you more experienced with recapping would look over the list, and make sure stupidity hasn't gotten the best of me. Thanks!
Click to expand...

The 850 is a bit tricky because of the manual being so crappy to begin with, then the scan is a bit fuzzy. The sx-950 shares MANY boards with the 850 so I use it a lot, and even when there isn't an exact match, it's pretty close.

Unless somebody has done an 850 and is willing to cross check the lists, the best thing to do is to comapre the 850 with the clearer 950 manual for a good guide to the approximate numbers of caps and their locations, THEN open up the 850 and visually verify the all the caps on all boards. it's easer than starting work and finding out you're short one, or a dozen. my ballparking on the 950 was:

tuner 22
eq/phono amp 8
flat amp 8nl + 4
tone amp 2nl + 12
power amp 8
prot 6
power supply 12

that totals to 10nl + 72

the "nl" I'm not sure why they make the distinction, they could be tantalum caps and you really don't want them in the circuit.

so between 38 and 82, well do the math.... get the 950 manual, and eyeball the unit... good luck....
 
Thanks for the advise, Mark.
I've checked against the 950 manual (which I'm very grateful to have so easily available), and added the caps for the tone amp, equalizer amp, protection board, and tuner. The tuner is different, but I was able to read the values from the 850 manual. I'm not quite sure how I managed to completely forget about so many boards.
If I have time tomorrow I'll the 850 open, and check against the actual values in the unit. If all is well, I'll post my updated parts list for anyone recapping an 850 in the future.
 
comrade_boris said:
Thanks for the advise, Mark.
I've checked against the 950 manual (which I'm very grateful to have so easily available), and added the caps for the tone amp, equalizer amp, protection board, and tuner. The tuner is different, but I was able to read the values from the 850 manual. I'm not quite sure how I managed to completely forget about so many boards.
If I have time tomorrow I'll the 850 open, and check against the actual values in the unit. If all is well, I'll post my updated parts list for anyone recapping an 850 in the future.
Click to expand...

How about saving a copy of it before modifying it during the 850 eyeball inspection. It will be great raw material to do the 950 off of.

Darn, I had a 950 open on the bench, a short while back, that would have been cool to work off a list doing an eyeballing of the unit for a recap list.

I don't know if you did it, but you will want to make note if there are axial caps instead of radial needed.... and also what that NL signifys after some of the caps.
 
So now that I'm in the unit, I have a questions stemming from a difference in the value actually on the board, compared to that listed in the manual. Especially on my PS board. c14 is listed in the manual as 200uF 10V. On the board I find a 47uF 25V. Huh? Those seem significantly different to me. Do I restore to the manual, or replace with what's on the board?
 
comrade_boris said:
So now that I'm in the unit, I have a questions stemming from a difference in the value actually on the board, compared to that listed in the manual. Especially on my PS board. c14 is listed in the manual as 200uF 10V. On the board I find a 47uF 25V. Huh? Those seem significantly different to me. Do I restore to the manual, or replace with what's on the board?
Click to expand...

Go with what's there, it's stabilizing the 5.5v lamp supply's zener reference and is isolated from the zener reference by a 3.9k ohm resistor.

The only things running off that supply are the function and speaker lamps. A little noise won't hurt anything on that circuit.

BUT you should inspect it's solder joints carefully, as well as the appearance of the cap compared to the others, (color, manufacturer etc) to see if there is any hint that it is NOT factory installed. If that's the case, go with the 200.

The only thing I see happening on that particular circuit is that the lamps take longer to start glowing after power up with the 200 uF cap, and a little less time with the 47uF cap.

The lamps are being run at 5.5v dc instead of 8vac like the illumination lamps, to extend their life. The voltage on the lamps won't change.
 
Mark,
it looks very original. It's the same brand as most of the rest of the caps on the board, and the solder looks original. I'm just surprised that it's different than the manual.
 
Okay, so I've now been through all the boards, and visually verified the existence and value of each electrolytic cap in the 850, and it all matches my parts list!

I've noted on in the spreadsheet which boards are also found in the 950 for future reference.

I could see absolutely no difference between the 'nl' caps and 'normal' electrolytics. I meant to take pictures, but forgot until I had the unit mostly put back together. I'll get you some pictures before I actually pull the caps, just to make sure I don't screw anything up.

And for some of the smaller values (.1uF, .22uF, .47uF, 1.5uF) I couldn't find a Nichicon that would work, and instead selected Xicon high temp caps. From what I've read, the UHE and UPW are the prefered, but will it hurt to use a few others? I've read in other threads that cap technology has come along way in the past 30 years, and I probably won't be able to hear a difference. True?
 

Attachments

You could stay (or try) with nichicon hi-temp radial caps, other than UPW or UHE when you have to...

But I'd have to look at them myself (walk in your shoes) before saying anything.

.1 647-UVZ1H0R1MDD 50v $027
.22 647-UVZ1HR22MDD 50v $0.25
.47 647-UVZ1HR47MDD 50v $0.25
1.5 647-UPM2A1R5MDD 100v $0.17

my search lines looked like this:
0.1uf nichicon
then:
0.1uf nuchicon uvz
then
1.5uf nichicon

you get what you pay for, like the can seals, for longer life before moisture loss kills them. Industry competetion keeps the prices in check...

otherwise why not go with the cheapest lo-temps you can find.....
 
I'd also do a physical check of the caps as well. I found the mylars for the loudness circuit in SX-1010 was listed as .027 but schematic shows .056 and the physical check confirmed as .056. Might want to watch for that.
 
ccheath said:
I'd also do a physical check of the caps as well. I found the mylars for the loudness circuit in SX-1010 was listed as .27 but schematic shows .56 and the physical check confirmed as .56. Might want to watch for that.
Click to expand...

Only the electrolytics..... mylars don't dry out and die....

PLUS, he already did that.... it's in the thread...

comrade_boris said:
Okay, so I've now been through all the boards, and visually verified the existence and value of each electrolytic cap in the 850, and it all matches my parts list!
Click to expand...
 
Missingtime said:
Anybody know how to open the zip file cuz I don't.
Click to expand...

you need a zip / unzip utility to unzip it.

I personally use BigSpeed Zipper (google it), you need to download a trusted utility, and this one hasn't given me problems.
 
I can put it into a different format, too. The forum wouldn't let me upload the xls file directly, so I zipped it. I can make it a straight text file, if that helps.

Anyway, the caps arrived today, and I've completed the power supply, protection, and equalizer amp boards. I was about to start on the tone board, when I realized that some of the caps listed as electrolytic in the manual are actually tantalum. As a side note, these are not the 'nl' caps discussed earlier. When ordering I was going to ask about them, but I figured that replacing one type of polarized cap with another wouldn't make a difference, as long as the values are correct. So my question is: do I replace them with the aluminum electrolytics I ordered, or just leave them, and maybe replace them some other time.
 
comrade_boris said:
I can put it into a different format, too. The forum wouldn't let me upload the xls file directly, so I zipped it. I can make it a straight text file, if that helps.

Anyway, the caps arrived today, and I've completed the power supply, protection, and equalizer amp boards. I was about to start on the tone board, when I realized that some of the caps listed as electrolytic in the manual are actually tantalum. As a side note, these are not the 'nl' caps discussed earlier. When ordering I was going to ask about them, but I figured that replacing one type of polarized cap with another wouldn't make a difference, as long as the values are correct. So my question is: do I replace them with the aluminum electrolytics I ordered, or just leave them, and maybe replace them some other time.
Click to expand...

Yes, replace the tantalum caps.... with the aluminum electrolytics...
 
comrade_boris said:
I can put it into a different format, too. The forum wouldn't let me upload the xls file directly, so I zipped it. I can make it a straight text file, if that helps.

Anyway, the caps arrived today, and I've completed the power supply, protection, and equalizer amp boards. I was about to start on the tone board, when I realized that some of the caps listed as electrolytic in the manual are actually tantalum. As a side note, these are not the 'nl' caps discussed earlier. When ordering I was going to ask about them, but I figured that replacing one type of polarized cap with another wouldn't make a difference, as long as the values are correct. So my question is: do I replace them with the aluminum electrolytics I ordered, or just leave them, and maybe replace them some other time.
Click to expand...

Feel free. Opening it just isn't easy for me.
 
Sorry for the delay. I just started a new job, so it has been a bit hectic. I've completed recapping all but the tuner. I'm a bit scared about restringing, etc, so I'm thinking I'll wait on that until I've had a while to look it over.
After the recap and adjusting DC offset and bias (per the instructions in the 950 manual) the 850 sounds significantly better. The main issue I'm having now is lots of crosstalk between the tuner and, well, everything else. So I'm not really sure what to do about that. I read something on one of these threads about separating the cables, so I may look into that.

I've updated the parts list for a few slight inconsistencies I found--high voltages than necessary and ordering different types of caps of identical values. I've uploaded the updated list in zip (with xls inside), xls, and txt format to some webspace provided by my university. They are here:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hern0163/850recap2.zip
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hern0163/850recap2.xls
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hern0163/850recap.txt

I've also attached the zip and txt versions. For the sake of completeness, I'll post the text below as well.
Thanks again for all your help. You guys here at AudioKarma are amazing.





+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
uF volts # unit Place symbol mouser # uF (new) volts (new) $(ea) $ (ext) Alternate mouser part numbers

1 25 2 850/950 equilizer awf-011 c1,2 647-UPW1H010MDD 1 50 0.23 0.46
3.3 25 2 850/950 equilizer awf-011 c11,12 647-UPW1H3R3MDD 3.3 50 0.23 0.46
100 35 1 850/950 equilizer awf-011 c17 647-UHE1H101MPD 100 50 0.28 0.28
220 25 1 850/950 equilizer awf-011 c18 647-UPW1V221MPD 220 35 0.56 0.56
330 6 2 850/950 equilizer awf-011 c7,8 647-UPW0J331MED 330 6.3 0.39 0.78
2.2 50 2 850/950 flat amp awg-038 c1,2 647-UPW1H2R2MDD 2.2 50 0.23 0.46
4.7 50 4 850/950 flat amp awg-038 c5,6,23,24 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7 50 0.23 0.92
10 25 2 850/950 flat amp awg-038 c17,18 647-UPW1H100MDD 10 50 0.25 0.5
100 10 2 850/950 flat amp awg-038 c25,26 647-UPW1A101MDD 100 25 0.26 0.52 647-UHE1E101MED
100 50 1 850/950 flat amp awg-038 c27 647-UHE1H101MPD 100 50 0.28 0.28
220 35 2 850/950 flat amp awg-038 c13,14 647-UPW1V221MPD 220 35 0.56 1.12
1 25 2 850 power amp awh-059 c3,4 647-UPW1H010MDD 1 50 0.23 0.46
2.2 25 2 850 power amp awh-059 c1,2 647-UPW1H2R2MDD 2.2 50 0.23 0.46
33 16 2 850 power amp awh-059 c5,6 647-UHE1J330MED 33 63 0.31 0.62 647-UHE1V330MDD
330 10 2 850 power amp awh-059 c11,12 647-UPW1C331MPD 330 16 0.5 1
47 16 2 850 power supply awr-102 c16,21 647-UHE1E470MDD 47 25 0.15 0.3
47 35 1 850 power supply awr-102 c19 647-UPW1H470MED 47 50 0.34 0.34
47 50 1 850 power supply awr-102 c18 647-UPW1H470MED 47 50 0.34 0.34
100 35 1 850 power supply awr-102 c23 647-UHE1H101MPD 100 50 0.28 0.28
100 63 1 850 power supply awr-102 c20 647-UPW1J101MPD 100 63 0.55 0.55
220 10 1 850 power supply awr-102 c14 647-UHE1A221MED 220 10 0.22 0.22 647-UPW1A221MED
470 63 1 850 power supply awr-102 c15 647-UHE1J471MHD 470 63 0.8 0.8
470 80 2 850 power supply awr-102 c10,11 647-UPW2A471MHD 470 100 1.24 2.48 647-UPS2A471MHD
1000 25 1 850 power supply awr-102 c13 647-UHE1E102MPD 1000 25 0.64 0.64
2200 35 1 850 power supply awr-102 c12 647-UHE1V222MHD 2200 35 1.38 1.38
0.22 10 2 850/950 protection awm-062 c1,2 647-UVZ1HR22MDD 0.22 50 0.25 0.5
4.7 25 1 850/950 protection awm-062 c5 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7 50 0.23 0.23
100 16 1 850/950 protection awm-062 c6 647-UPW1E101MED 100 25 0.35 0.35
330 6 2 850/950 protection awm-062 c3,4 647-UPW0J331MED 330 6.3 0.39 0.78
220 6 1 850/950 switch assembly 94 c1 647-UPW0J221MED 220 6.3 0.32 0.32
0.22 35 2 850/950 tone awg-039 c25,26 647-UVZ1HR22MDD 0.22 50 0.25 0.5
2.2 25 2 850/950 tone awg-039 c23,24 647-UPW1H2R2MDD 2.2 50 0.23 0.46
10 25 6 850/950 tone awg-039 c13,14,15,16,29,30 647-UPW1H100MDD 10 50 0.25 1.5
47 35 2 850/950 tone awg-039 c21,22 647-UPW1H470MED 47 50 0.34 0.68
100 16 2 850/950 tone awg-039 c19,20 647-UPW1E101MED 100 25 0.35 0.7
0.1 25 2 850 tuner awe-071 c48,62 647-UVZ1H0R1MDD 0.1 50 0.27 0.54
0.22 25 1 850 tuner awe-071 c39 647-UVZ1HR22MDD 0.22 50 0.25 0.25
0.47 50 1 850 tuner awe-071 c28 647-UVZ1HR47MDD 0.47 50 0.25 0.25
1 50 1 850 tuner awe-071 c32 647-UPW1H010MDD 1 50 0.23 0.23
1.5 25 3 850 tuner awe-071 c40,45,46 647-UPM2A1R5MDD 1.5 100 0.17 0.51
3.3 25 1 850 tuner awe-071 c41 647-UPW1H3R3MDD 3.3 50 0.23 0.23
4.7 16 3 850 tuner awe-071 c25,47,60 647-UPW1H4R7MDD 4.7 50 0.23 0.69
10 16 4 850 tuner awe-071 c27,36,37,38 647-UPW1H100MDD 10 50 0.25 1
47 16 3 850 tuner awe-071 c34,57,61 647-UHE1E470MDD 47 25 0.15 0.45
100 16 2 850 tuner awe-071 c35,49 647-UPW1E101MED 100 25 0.35 0.7
220 16 1 850 tuner awe-071 c65 647-UPW1E221MPD 220 25 0.5 0.5
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mouser BOM for quick ordering:
647-UHE1A221MED|1
647-UHE1E102MPD|1
647-UHE1E470MDD|5
647-UHE1H101MPD|3
647-UHE1J330MED|2
647-UHE1J471MHD|1
647-UHE1V222MHD|1
647-UPM2A1R5MDD|3
647-UPW0J221MED|1
647-UPW0J331MED|4
647-UPW1A101MDD|7
647-UPW1C331MPD|2
647-UPW1E221MPD|1
647-UPW1H010MDD|5
647-UPW1H100MDD|12
647-UPW1H2R2MDD|6
647-UPW1H3R3MDD|3
647-UPW1H470MED|4
647-UPW1H4R7MDD|8
647-UPW1J101MPD|1
647-UPW1V221MPD|3
647-UPW2A471MHD|2
647-UVZ1H0R1MDD|2
647-UVZ1HR22MDD|5
647-UVZ1HR47MDD|1
 

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