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Herbie's Iso-cups under phono pre = reduced vocal sibilance issues (pics)

Mr. Lin

Lunatic Member
These footers just arrived in the mail today, and my original plan was to put them under my CD player first, but I'm currently listening to records, and my phono preamp is relatively small and uses tubes, so I wondered whether the Iso-cups would make any immediately noticeable difference if placed underneath it.

There are pictures below if you've never seen these. Basically just a silicone cup with one of a number of balls all made from various gemstones, and all allegedly having slightly different sonic characters. As you can see in the pictures, they're meant to go ball-side up (I confirmed this with Steve Herbelin, founder of Herbies Audio Lab).

So I started playing a record, and once the first song was over I stopped it and put the Iso-cups underneath the phono preamp with the "Lampblack" balls they come with (you can order various types of other balls separately). I was skeptical beforehand, so you can imagine my surprise when I heard what a difference something like this could make. Everything sounded tightened up and crisper, very clean. But most surprising of all, sibilance once present on certain parts of records I played today, regardless of which of my turntables or cartridges I use, was greatly diminished if not altogether defeated! I tested this with some of my most problematic lps, where I'm quite sure the issue is groove damage and not something about my setup. In the worst cases there were still issues with somewhat-harsh vocal sibilants, but even those now held in check, and much easier to listen to than before. I speculate that these dampers eliminate much of the sibilance that's the result of distortion, though naturally they can't help when the source of the problem is all groove damage.

The description on Herbie's website mentions that the Iso-cups reduce sibilance, among other types of distortion, and it's not nonsense from what I'm hearing. I don't totally understand it, and if anyone thinks they have an explanation for this I'd love to hear it, but in the meantime I haven't been able to tear myself away from listening to records, which we all know is the big indicator of success when tweaking one's system.

The pictures below show the isolators under my Wright 200C, where only three of the four I ordered are actually needed. Those fat things wrapped around the 12AU7s are Herbie's tube dampers, but that's a whole other subject that many of you are probably already familiar with. The other picture gives you a close up look at an Iso-cup with the standard ball in it, plus a couple other loose ones, a Lampblack and an extra Mexican Agate.

I'm ordering more of these for my integrated amp, end of story.
 

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You have some nice looking balls.
lol.

Yes, I left myself wide open to that one.:D

Here's something I forgot to ask: I know this is just one of a huge variety of possible isolation techniques that people try. Has anyone experienced reduced sibilance using other materials or products to isolate their phono preamp?
 
Thats all I got... I have heard really good things about the Herbies Tube Dampers too.

Evan

They work, but the differences are far subtler than what I'm hearing with the Iso-cups. There'd probably be a bigger difference with larger power tubes.

The Herbie's Way Cool turntable mat is the first thing I bought from him, and that's definitely a great product. He has a lot of really neat stuff and provides great service too. Sorry this is starting to sound like an advertisement but I swear I'm just a happy customer.
 
Here's something I forgot to ask: I know this is just one of a huge variety of possible isolation techniques that people try. Has anyone experienced reduced sibilance using other materials or products to isolate their phono preamp?

I don't know how well they work, but you could try Herbie's very own HAL-O JR's. I've been considering them myself for my SL-1210. The KAB Silicone Damper works well and I think reduces sibilance but of course it only works on the Technics MKII tables.
 
I don't know how well they work, but you could try Herbie's very own HAL-O JR's. I've been considering them myself for my SL-1210. The KAB Silicone Damper works well and I think reduces sibilance but of course it only works on the Technics MKII tables.

Already been there.:D Somehow forgot to mention another few things I've tried from this guy. One is the Halo-Jr, the teflon version, which I wrote about here at one point because I have it on the tonearm of my Thorens and that made a very noticeable difference indeed. That's one I highly recommend for tonearm damping if it'll fit your tonearm.

There's the strangest of the bunch, the interconnect dampers. These I tried just out of curiosity. They're basically just like the tube dampers but much smaller, and they go on the connectors of the interconnects. Seems crazy, and I don't know if it really works, but I use there where I can because I figure it can't hurt.

In fact, just now I pulled one off the RCA connector and tried fitting it onto the plug from my headphones where it goes into the headphone amp, and I swear the bass got louder, but I honestly could be imagining things, so nobody hold me to that.
 
So out of curiosity, could you try just the cups without the balls as a test?

I suspect this works similar to building isolators.
 
Very interesting and timely post. I recently bought a set of Iso-cups to replace the plinth springs on a VPI HW-19 when I upgrade to a heavier platter and bearing. Now you've got me thinking about trying them under my phono pre-amp, as well as my other components.
 
Very cool man! Exciting stuff.

Can I get them in blue? lol

Yes, yes you can. :yes:

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My friend use to have two of these, until he dropped one. :D
 

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So out of curiosity, could you try just the cups without the balls as a test?

I suspect this works similar to building isolators.

I could, but I'm sure they're more effective with the balls in them. There are also metal, silicone-filled base plates offered to put under these, and he claims this takes the whole thing up another notch. I may very well try that, but not for a couple weeks. I've spent enough money here, and just tonight I ordered three more of these to go under my amp (which is a hybrid integrated), along with three more balls made of African ebony wood.

Tedrick, have you used your Iso-cups on your VPI yet, or is that for the future? I have a feeling one of the reasons this was so effective with my 200C is that it uses 4 small signal tubes, two 12AX7 and two 12AU7 (two others in the separate power supply chassis), so it's likely that any little vibrations affect these, even though I have dampers on two of them already (other two have to be shielded or there's hum, regardless of tubes used).
 
Tedrick, have you used your Iso-cups on your VPI yet, or is that for the future? I have a feeling one of the reasons this was so effective with my 200C is that it uses 4 small signal tubes, two 12AX7 and two 12AU7 (two others in the separate power supply chassis), so it's likely that any little vibrations affect these, even though I have dampers on two of them already (other two have to be shielded or there's hum, regardless of tubes used).
Not yet on the VPI, but very soon.

I'm especially intrigued with your results using the Isocups under your tube phono-pre, as I'm running a Musical Fidelity tube phono-pre. Looks like I'll need to order some more in the not too distant future.
 
I'd like to know more about how you are using the term "sibilance". I owned a film studio for ten years back in the eighties and all my recording engineers termed sibilance as the high "S" sound formed in a person's mouth with their tonge and the back of their teeth. I don't think it can be created with mechanical or electronic equipment. Interesting thought though. Cheers. p.s., nice balls.
 
I'd like to know more about how you are using the term "sibilance". I owned a film studio for ten years back in the eighties and all my recording engineers termed sibilance as the high "S" sound formed in a person's mouth with their tonge and the back of their teeth. I don't think it can be created with mechanical or electronic equipment. Interesting thought though. Cheers. p.s., nice balls.

I think he is referring to how those human-made "s" sounds are reproduced. Lesser equipment will "smear" the sound a bit and make an "s" sound more like an "sh" sound, so the word "sore" sounds more like "shore" (or some more mechanical variant like that). It's about how clear, clean and distinct the "s" sounds. Those isolators just taught his gear how not to lisp! :D

Since a clear "s" is one of the harder things for gear (especially speakers) to reproduce clearly, it's one of the things I listen closely to when auditioning/testing a set-up. Smeary, indistinct "s" sounds can get very annoying over time, and usually (not always, but usually) when they are clear, the overall sound is clear, too.
 
I could, but I'm sure they're more effective with the balls in them.

That already tells me what I wanted to know.:rolleyes:

The best isolators I ever tried were those silicone gooey balls that were sold as kid's toys for $1.99 Each ball was 2 halves, and 2 of them made fantastic dampers.

I am sorry, but I see the silicone dampening vibrations, but I am a tad rooted in science to see the Gem Balls. They LOOK nice, but you have to prove it to me.

Now if you REALLY want isolation, try building a dead table for laser holography. :D
 
I'd like to know more about how you are using the term "sibilance". I owned a film studio for ten years back in the eighties and all my recording engineers termed sibilance as the high "S" sound formed in a person's mouth with their tonge and the back of their teeth. I don't think it can be created with mechanical or electronic equipment. Interesting thought though. Cheers. p.s., nice balls.

The post below yours explains pretty much exactly what I mean. It's not always the same though. I find that if setup/components are to blame the S will sound like a harsh SH. If groove damage is the culprit you have that plus some distortion in the background at the same time, only with the S's. These are very generalized observations I've made from my system, and this might not actually be the case. However, the Iso-cups did reduce some of the sibilance, which I still find pretty intriguing. Nothing in my system is anywhere near low-end, by the way.
 
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