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What can I expect as cartridge breaks in?

Brett a

Brett a

~◦●○o0o○●◦~
Hi again.

I'll try to keep this short and not get into actually reviewing the cartridge (I wouldn't do that this early in the relationship), But I just mounted an Audio Technica AT150MLx on my Rega P2 w/RB250 arm and Incognito wires.

This is the best cart i have owned and am in love with it's capabilities, generally speaking. But it isn't perfect. (go figure)

It has a bit too much high frequency energy. Occasionally bordering on glaring. It would be perfect if I could just roll back the highs ever so slightly but i don't have tone controls.

I think I'm learning that my system, with its B&W 683's leans to the bright side of neutral and I'm thinking this might not be the cart for me. But it's early---only about 10 hours on this cart so far.

So, can anyone tell me if this cart might mellow as it wears in? Or should I just pack it up now, sell it, and move on?
 
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I have an AT150MLX also, and it will mellow out with time. Some say 50 hours, but mine was closer to 20 hours. Adjust the vta on your arm tail down a smidge, and also a low capacitance interconnect cable will improve the edgy top end. The Blue Jeans cables I use are very good for this cart.
 
Hi,
No experience with this cartridge. Others will chime in. I'd be patient. As a cartridge breaks in the highs will mellow and become rounder and smoother. The tracking should improve and sound staging and imaging should be more definitive. Bass may improve depending on the cartridge.

Cartridges vary a lot during the break in stage with some changing quite a lot and others being more subtle. 10 hours is not very much time. I'd wait until 30 hours is reached before making a decision.

Sparky
 
I went through the same thing with my AT 150mlx. When I first mounted it I was really disappointed by how the high end sounded. It mellowed out over time, I'd say about 20 hours but that's just a guess. It still sounds edgy on certain combinations of gear (I switch stuff in and out all the time), but by and large I like it, but wouldn't buy another as I think in the long run I'd prefer something with a warmer sound. It sounds REALLY nice through vintage tube preamps (use it on Arc SP-3a1 and Fisher 400c), and the suggestion to mount lower capacitance cables is one that I need to get around to doing myself. I've read that this cartridge is very picky about capacitance loading, the lower the better, and the highs will then tame right down.
 
Also wanted to second the recommendation of adjusting the VTA. I did this when I was first experiencing problems with that cart, and the high end was significantly tamed. Not totally, and time helped, but lowering the VTA was a huge step in the right direction.
 
I told you to look at a Benz or a Denon...:naughty: but seriously, what you should expect is that the cartridge should smooth out a bit, track a tiny bit better and extend both bass and treble a bit more.

It may end up being too bright for you, though, as the ones I have heard sound like a nicely refined AT440ML with even more, albeit much higher quality, high frequency extension...a neutral cartridge that in some systems tends toward a more silvery sound than gold toned...an antithesis to the Grado Prestige "house" sound...

But, hey, we all have to experiment with this stuff to find out what we like, and don't like, what works in our systems and what won't...

Which is why after over 40 years of playing with audio, and 25 years after my first Grado cartridge, I feel that there is only one (and the ones above it) that I like, and that's the Sonata, it's even better than my old JG Signature XTZ...but it took my ownership of dozens of cartridges (and the 7 Grados I have on hand!) to get a handle on what it is about them that does not appeal to me in comparison to others.

I am willing to give the new Gold +1 a chance and will order one soon, but really, nothing in the Grado line I have heard below the Sonata floats my boat!

I know, it's personal preference and how our ears are tuned, but that's just me...

Give the new cartridge a break in and if after about 50 hours (and with proper setup) it doesn't jell in your system , then time to move on...

It's the journey, not the destination that's the most fun!

Good Luck and have fun!

Rick
 
RickB said:
I told you to look at a Benz or a Denon...:naughty:
Click to expand...
I know, I know...

RickB said:
Give the new cartridge a break in and if after about 50 hours (and with proper setup) it doesn't jell in your system , then time to move on...

It's the journey, not the destination that's the most fun!

Good Luck and have fun!

Rick
Click to expand...
I'll give it enough time to prove its self to me or not. But not too much time to lower its resale value any further. And you're right. It is a journey. I like getting all this experiential knowledge as I tune my system.

I'll keep you all posted.
Thanks:thmbsp:
 
Brett, just to echo what people have said here already, I think you should give it a fair amount of time, at least 50 hours, before deciding you don't like it. Brightness is a common characteristic of cartridges that are not yet broken in. It could be a system mismatch, but you might be able to fix that by switching a couple things around. This is such a beloved cartridge that I can't help but think it will round itself out and end up being much more enjoyable for you in the long run.
 
G'day all, 'break-in' is interesting. All components having mechanical aspects will be subject to 'settling in' considerations.

As for phono cartridges, some do a lot and others, not so. Certainly with my beloved Shure M97xE's (all three of them), every one of them showed a marked alteration in 'sound' after about 100 hours....quite a long 'break in'!

That does seem inordinately long, but things got better than new so I'm not complaining too much! Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
catman said:
G'day all, 'break-in' is interesting. All components having mechanical aspects will be subject to 'settling in' considerations.

As for phono cartridges, some do a lot and others, not so. Certainly with my beloved Shure M97xE's (all three of them), every one of them showed a marked alteration in 'sound' after about 100 hours....quite a long 'break in'!

That does seem inordinately long, but things got better than new so I'm not complaining too much! Regards, Felix aka catman.
Click to expand...

So true, I just mentioned in another thread (for the one-millionth time) that Grado cartridges take forever to break in, for example. My 10X5? That one always sounded great, I never noticed much of a change until I played with the setup a little.
 
Brett a said:
Hi again.

I'll try to keep this short and not get into actually reviewing the cartridge (I wouldn't do that this early in the relationship), But I just mounted an Audio Technica AT150MLx on my Rega P2 w/RB250 arm and Incognito wires.

This is the best cart i have owned and am in love with it's capabilities, generally speaking. But it isn't perfect. (go figure)

It has a bit too much high frequency energy. Occasionally bordering on glaring. It would be perfect if I could just roll back the highs ever so slightly but i don't have tone controls.

I think I'm learning that my system, with its B&W 683's leans to the bright side of neutral and I'm thinking this might not be the cart for me. But it's early---only about 10 hours on this cart so far.

So, can anyone tell me if this cart might mellow as it wears in? Or should I just pack it up now, sell it, and move on?
Click to expand...

The character of a cartridge is to a quite large extent depending on the loading. That means if cartridges are more optimized regarding loading they will much more sound closer to one another. If a cart like the 150MLX sounds bright I`m very confident it will sound better with a more correct loading.

The problem is that it´s not extremely easy to get a correct loading, because to do it properly the output from the phono amp must be in some way recorded and evaluated. One can of course try with different capacitances at the phono amp`s input to see how the sound will change.

/gusten
 
gusten said:
The character of a cartridge is to a quite large extent depending on the loading. That means if cartridges are more optimized regarding loading they will much more sound closer to one another. If a cart like the 150MLX sounds bright I`m very confident it will sound better with a more correct loading.

The problem is that it´s not extremely easy to get a correct loading, because to do it properly the output from the phono amp must be in some way recorded and evaluated. One can of course try with different capacitances at the phono amp`s input to see how the sound will change.

/gusten
Click to expand...

Gusten, this is a regular MM cartridge that's only meant to be loaded at 47kohms. Loading should not be the issue here, as it very well could have been if we were talking about a MC cartridge.
 
Mr. Lin said:
Gusten, this is a regular MM cartridge that's only meant to be loaded at 47kohms. Loading should not be the issue here, as it very well could have been if we were talking about a MC cartridge.
Click to expand...

Yes I know it´s an MM, but also an MM can be optimized to have a flat frequency respons. The loading is a combination of resistance and capacitance and can be altered in such a way that the output from the phono amp is flattest possible.

What I have seen it´s more of an exception that 47KOhms should be the optimal resistance. If a cart is considered to be bright, it´s reasonable to think that the treble is in some way boosted, and need in fact a little lower value.

/gusten
 
Yes, optimised electrical loading can help. I know that the AT440 is tamed nicely by an input impedance of around 33 k. But 'loading' is but one of several possible factors. 'Break in' is another.

My M97xE's benefitted from both, and optimal overhang adjustment too. There is a thread on 'loading' just down the page as well! Regards, Felix.
 
gusten said:
Yes I know it´s an MM, but also an MM can be optimized to have a flat frequency respons. The loading is a combination of resistance and capacitance and can be altered in such a way that the output from the phono amp is flattest possible.

What I have seen it´s more of an exception that 47KOhms should be the optimal resistance. If a cart is considered to be bright, it´s reasonable to think that the treble is in some way boosted, and need in fact a little lower value.

/gusten
Click to expand...

That's possible, but there's a real chance he doesn't have the option of changing the impedance load on his phono preamp. Aside from that, I think it's far more likely that this is a break-in issue, given the nature of this cartridge and the fact that it's brand new. Excessively bright is not something I've ever heard anyone describe the 150MLX as, and most people use regular MM settings at 47kohms with this type of cartridge.
 
OK, I have the 150MLX and can attest to the fact that it's a VERY detailed cartridge. What some see as edgy, may just be higher frequency detail you have not heard before?

Then onto the break-in time, at least 25 hours. More is better. The issue is with the edges of the micro-line stylus. The spanking sharp diamond will track dirt, nicotine, smudges, micro-scratches, etc. After break-in, it will be slightly polished by a few miles of vinyl. It will be smoother, literally and sonically :)

About harsh top ends. Added capacitance rolls off the top end. As a test, get some longer cables (ICs). Say some cheapie video grade cables from Wall Mart. Maybe 6 to 12 feet. Plug them in instead. It's a cheap test.

If it mutes the top end, you know you need to add a bit of capacitance to your circuit. Play with some various cables from your stash. We get all bothered to get the lowest capacitance cables we can and sometimes they are too low. You may find the right balance for less than $20 :)
 
I want to add my voice to the following:

Run her in a slightly tail-down configuration. That will bring the bottom end up to a more balanced level. Run her like that for 20-50 hours. Then you can try lifting her tail back to a level position and see what you think. You may just want to ker her that way, and you may want to lower her tail back down slightly.

Let us know what you see and hear...

Enjoy,
Rich P
 
BrocLuno said:
OK, I have the 150MLX and can attest to the fact that it's a VERY detailed cartridge. What some see as edgy, may just be higher frequency detail you have not heard before?
Click to expand...
This is a good inquiry, but don't think it's me. Detail has been my first love and in its pursuit, I have had to come back from the edge of "fatiguing" a few times in my equipment choices.

BrocLuno said:
After break-in, it will be slightly polished by a few miles of vinyl. It will be smoother, literally and sonically :)
Click to expand...
Another 2 hours last night and I'd swear it's getting smoother already (at ~12hours)

BrocLuno said:
About harsh top ends. Added capacitance rolls off the top end. As a test, get some longer cables (ICs). Say some cheapie video grade cables from Wall Mart. Maybe 6 to 12 feet. Plug them in instead. It's a cheap test.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the IC's between the phono stage and amp? (They are currently a set of fairly high-end 1/2 meter Siltechs.) Cables in this position affect cart loading even through the circuitry of the phono stage?
As for the cables on the TT, they are Incognitos and are one piece Cardas wire from the cartridge clips all the way to the RCA's. So I can't change those.

Thanks for your help so far everyone.
:thmbsp:
 
pustelniakr said:
Run her in a slightly tail-down configuration. That will bring the bottom end up to a more balanced level. Run her like that for 20-50 hours.
Let us know what you see and hear...
Enjoy,
Rich P
Click to expand...
The Rega does not have adjustable VTA. I did put an old LP under the felt mat for a few records (to effectively raise the platter/lower the VTA) and did not hear any sonic improvements. I didn't think of breaking it in this way. And probably won't. I don't want to damp the glass platter with superfluous vinyl.
 
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