How Much Can My Speakers Handle?

I have an older pair of Paradigm Bookshelf style speakers. I emailed Paradigm to find out the stats since I could not find any info online. How can I tell how much is too much amp (watts) for my speakers? According to Paradigm, my speakers have the following specs:

Design: 2 driver, 2-way bass reflex, Quasi-3rd order resistive port

Crossover: 4th order electro/acoustic at 1.6kHz

Driver Complement: one 25mm(1") Q25/XPT high-frequency driver, one 210mm(8") Q210/XPT bass/midrange driver

Performance: Low Frequency Extension 28Hz(DIN)

Frequency Response:
On Axis 0 degrees +/-2dB from 45Hz-20kHz
Off Axis 30 degrees +/-2dB from 45Hz-15kHz

Sensitivity-Room/Anechoic: 89dB/86dB

Suitable Amplifier Power Range: 15-150 watts

Maximum Input Power: 100 watts

Nominal/Minimum Impedance: 8 ohms/4 ohms

I'm confused by the fact that they say 150 watts is within suitable limits but then it says 100 watts maximum input power. I've also read not to worry, that even if you connect 250 watt amps you won't blow your speakers cause they'll never use that much. I'm looking for a decent SS amp to connect to my Parasound preamp to drive these speakers and could use a little help.

You can never have too much amp...

To find out what they can handle.. wire them up and start turning up the volume.. once they start to sound distorted, you know thats too much, and they can handle just below that...

similost said:

You can never have too much amp...

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So if I can "never have too much amp" why do the specs say:

Suitable Amplifier Power Range: 15-150 watts
Maximum Input Power: 100 watts

Isn't there a possibility of putting too much power into them and thus, heating up the voice coils? I was considering a modded pair of B&K M200 monoblocks that are rated 150 amps (peak-to-peak). I also read one guy who said you could weld with them! This caused me to think that maybe I should find out what my speakers can handle. This is confusing. :scratch2:

What answer do you want to hear?

Similost gave you a great real-world answer. The only thing I would add is that when it starts to sound bad, turn it down NOW!!!

OTOH, it seems you are in posession of what the speaker manufacturer says.

Now, take your choice.

What more do you want?

Power specs are more of a recommendation- it is what the speaker will handle in steady-state output. A speaker with a minimum rating is usually saying to have an amplifier with at least so much output to avoid clipping. Maximum is the continuous power the speaker can take before damage occurs, theoretically. Of course, there are exceptions an addendums.

The general rule of thumb is to provide a speaker with as much clean power as you can. A speaker will often times be more at home with a larger amp with clean output than a smaller amp that's pushed into clipping. As already stated, the speaker itself will usually let you know when enough is enough.

Markw said:

Similost gave you a great real-world answer.
What more do you want?

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Well I was just a little unsure about just how much of a beast amp my speakers will take. I'm not really as advanced as a lot of you guys so I thought it best to ask and get a few opinions. That's all I want, nothing more. Thanks

Well.. it's kind of like buying a Porsche... yep.. it may have the power to do 150, but the limit is only 60.. BUT.. if you ever need.. you have the overhead...

Overhead is the answer for having a larger amp... more overhead, less stressed and cleaner sound.. to an extent...

Just because you have a 1000 watt amp on a speaker that recommends 150 watts doesn't mean you should use it all... you can easily use a 1000 watt amp on these speakers and not damage them.. just be wise about how you use the accelerator...

I agree with M Jarve and others when they speak about "clean" power. You have a much better chance of blowing a pair of speakers with a low-output (wattage) amp than with a high wattage amp at the same volume. Good question, and one that I'm sure many people have!

to make sure it's crystal clear, subwolfer, the power ratings on speakers generally don't mean a whole lot for the average person. as was mentioned before, the ONLY issue (generally speaking, at least) with an amp that's more powerful than your speakers are rated to handle is that the speakers will likely give out before the amp. so if you turn up the volume on your preamp all the way, you will likely have problems. but as long as you don't turn it up past the point where your speakers start compressing badly and audibly distort, then you're never going to have any problems. and as was also mentioned, having more power available than you need is generally a good thing for sound. that being said, i probably wouldn't put a 500 Wpc amp on a 96dB or more sensitive home speaker for several reasons.

Actually they can go pretty loud. The woofers are built very well. Ive seen hundreds of paradigms as they are abundant in Canada. Very nice speakers. As stated before, carefully crank it up and when it sounds like crap back off immediately!

Thanks for all the advice guys. I understand now that speakers will handle amps higher than their "suggested" power ratings. I would never turn up the volume all the way, and "when it sounds like crap back off immediately!" But it sounds to me like with a more powerful amp with more clean power, the speakers will go louder without sounding bad as opposed to a lower power amp, am I correct?

cdfac said:

i probably wouldn't put a 500 Wpc amp on a 96dB or more sensitive home speaker for several reasons.

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My specs say "Sensitivity-Room/Anechoic: 89dB/86dB". So I'm assuming the 89db is the rating most people look at when wanting to know how sensitive (efficient) a speaker is, correct? And the higher the sensitivity (db rating) the easier they are to drive, meaning they will go louder with the same watts as lower db rated speakers, is that correct?

SubWolfer said:

But it sounds to me like with a more powerful amp with more clean power, the speakers will go louder without sounding bad as opposed to a lower power amp, am I correct?

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compared to an amp that is rated below what your speakers can handle, yes, what you're saying is entirely plausible, but it's not exactly a rule. the concept of dynamic power comes into play too.

SubWolfer said:

My specs say "Sensitivity-Room/Anechoic: 89dB/86dB". So I'm assuming the 89db is the rating most people look at when wanting to know how sensitive (efficient) a speaker is, correct? And the higher the sensitivity (db rating) the easier they are to drive, meaning they will go louder with the same watts as lower db rated speakers, is that correct?

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yes and yes. this explains why i've found it beneficial to use a 500 Wpc amp - my main speakers are only ~81dB in-room.

like similost points out, overhead in an amp is important.. because wattage, (from and amp or to a speaker) is measured typically in sustained or constant wattage.. It does not often express PEAK wattage, which is often very important.

So quality low bass response typically takes more wattage than mid/high. For simple reasons, the driver/speaker is physically bigger and takes more power to move. And even more power to move it accurately.

So while you may have a TRUE max 50wpc amp, (no overhead) and you have it turned up a quarter of the way, and your are averaging say 10 wpc and a rauckus booming drum and bass solo comes on,.. your likely to punch up to 30+wpc or even more.. Just to have that physically taxing exertion be accurate.. (you volume doesnt go up) where as if it then goes to say a flute solo, you might only be using a couple watts (without your volume going down)

So,. then say you have your amp turned up half way or more.. say 6. and that same crazy drum bass solo comes on.. to make your speakers do it as accurately you would likely need to be able to put out up to 80-100 wpc.. and your amp wont do that so it will likely start clipping.. by trying to push that wattage,.. OR,.. it simply wont perform with the speaker,.. and the speakers bass will sound soft,warbled,muddy, sloppy, whatever term you choose.

Speakers are similar,.. in that they can usually take spikes well above their listed wattage capacity,.. they just cant sustain them for long ...

So according to the speakers specs, they are saying that the speakers can take wattage peaks comfortably up to 150watts without fear of blowing. (they can likely take peaks well above that but safer not to say that) So since most amps will peak a fair bit above their claimed wattage (they have decent overhead,) a 100wpc amp would likely have enough overhead to peak to 150 wpc... and thus be a good match for your speakers.

But.. especially seeing as how you kinda need to almost double wattage to increase noticable output.. 1-2 2-5 5-10 25-50 50-100 100-200 This is a very rough estimate and explanation, as some of the more technical guys here could give you all the math and physics involved.. But its a good ball park understanding I believe.

So while the Numbers get HUGE fast for wattage, the amount of difference per watt becomes increasingly minuscule.

For the most part there is no difference between an 80 wpc and 100wpc amp. You're kinda splitting hairs. 5wpc 25wpc = HUGE difference even though same number of watts difference.

Anyway.. as a rule of thumb, Similost is dead on.. Extra Horsepower never hurts,. and sometimes its amazing just how much of a difference even at lower volumes that horsepower (wattage) makes.

So while 100wpc is probably a fine size amp for your speakers.. you would want to move up to 200wpc for there to be a noticeable change.. So depending on how hard (loud) you drive these things.. I wouldnt go feeding them 1250 wpc monoblocks each, but having 200-300wpc amps arent going to do any harm, and might just sound better, since they will never be working very hard.. You just wont ever take them up over 5-6 on the volume dial.

Wow.. I guess I can ramble when Im sick (Swine flu!!! , Ok just a cold.. but Swine Flu is the hip ailment these days)

fau5tu5 said:

So while 100wpc is probably a fine size amp for your speakers.. you would want to move up to 200wpc for there to be a noticeable change.. So depending on how hard (loud) you drive these things.. I wouldnt go feeding them 1250 wpc monoblocks each, but having 200-300wpc amps arent going to do any harm, and might just sound better, since they will never be working very hard.. You just wont ever take them up over 5-6 on the volume dial.

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Excellent helpful advice. So I reckon by what y'all are tellin me then is that those B&K 200 watt monoblocks wouldn't do my speakers harm. The other issue though that kind of made me take pause with them is the guy told me my lights would probably dim when I turn them on and to power them up one at a time! That just sounded like it might be too much for my Paradigms and thus the reason I came in here to ask about what's OK. I don't want to blow my speakers. Can't find these anymore except on rare occasions and I'm not financially able to fund new speakers at the moment. hence my cautious approach to amplification.

200 watt monoblocks would not be a danger to your speakers.

And yes they might dim you lights upon power up.. But thats more of an issue with your house/apartment than it is with the equipment. And has nothing to do with your speakers..

(again, the electrical engineers can correct or ammend what Im saying) But that dimming has to do with the voltage/amp draw on the circuit.. and likely the lights are sharing that same circuit, or your panel is older. it has nothing to do with the watts or the speakers... the power supply on the amp sucks to hard on the electrical straw to get a good flow going.. and for a second takes a little pressure from your lights.

One of the things I'm planning to do with our remodel is running a dedicated circuit for Audio/entertainment gear. for exactly that reason..

It doesnt mean your AMPS are SUPERPOWERED and sucking electricity from the whole grid and going to blast your speakers with it..

The same thing would happen with a toaster over on a crowded circuit.. and a Hair dryer will often blow a fuse for drawing too much on a crowded circuit..

fau5tu5 said:

And yes they might dim you lights upon power up.. But thats more of an issue with your house/apartment than it is with the equipment. And has nothing to do with your speakers..

The same thing would happen with a toaster over on a crowded circuit.. and a Hair dryer will often blow a fuse for drawing too much on a crowded circuit..

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Would a quality power conditioner be well advised? Do those things work well or is it all hype?

It really depends on the quality of power you have already. I cannot see many situations where it would hurt anything, but whether it would actually improve it is debatable, as long as you have reasonably good power to begin with.

SubWolfer said:

Would a quality power conditioner be well advised? Do those things work well or is it all hype?

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The advice you guys have supplied is much appreciated. Headroom; yeah, lots of headroom. We all want that!

OK, so this next question is more about amps than speakers, but still it relates to what y'all have said about driving speakers and the "you can never have too much amp" theme. As I said, I am looking for a nice SS amp to drive my Paradigm speakers. 200 - 300 wpc seems like a good powerful amp and should make my speakers sing. So can anyone here enlighten me as to why, with all these suggestions to get some watts going to my speakers, someone would buy an amp like THIS that's rated at only 15 wpc? Seems like the EXACT opposite of what y'all are suggesting.

I feel more confusion setting in. :scratch2:

Very High efficiency speakers (most used with tube amps) can sound awesome..

And many audiophiles are very focused on the quality of amplification.. and many want to focus on Class A power. (pure clean power)

That amp would not be good for your application..

But many high efficiency speakers and tube systems, focus on the quality of the first 3-5 watts.. which is most all they need..

Now you've opened up an entirely different can of worms. I don't pretend to know enough to answer the question, but you are in the right place to find out. :yes: