• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Who has record cleaning machines? Worth it?

superdog

superdog

AK Member
Being fairly new to vinyl I am seeing or rather hearing the difference between a very good,clean and scratch free copy and one that is so-so.The majority of my lps are thrift finds so they are decent but a little less than stellar condition.The thought of getting a cleaner has crossed my mind.Is it worth the expense?What is a good price on a used one.Will I get the same result with dishsoap and a fine bristle brush? Thanks.
 
Register to hide this ad
Buy the VPI 16.5, it runs $540 used, a little less used but you have to be quick on the draw to get one as they are snapped up quick. I went 18 years before getting one and don't know why I didn't sooner. This thing is made for cheap vinyl, if you find something that's a little dirty but not scratched it will breath new life into it. That being said, the only thing you have to worry about are records played with worn styli but of course anyone doing that is liable to scratch the hell out of them too but I have seen a few records that looked VG+ and played like crap (unfortunately two of them were Beatles mono pressings I really wanted to sound good).
 
Yes, on cleaning with the machines, especially the VPI and Clearaudio machines. I've used the different Nitty Gritty machines and really prefer the turntable to support records while I clean them.

No, you will not get as good of results in your sink, been there, tried that. I know others claim differently, but once you've lived with a machine for a while you will know the difference.

And no, even though he claims differently, using the Disc Doctor's method without using a vacuum machine does not get the discs as clean, as fast, with as few re-washings...been there, done that...but, the Disc Doctor's and the MoFi brushes are the ones to use if you aren't going to invest in a machine...but, I like the original VPI brush, and I like the Osage Audio brush a little better than it...but these are best for machine fluid removal setups with rotating platters, using them with the NG's is just a pain in the rump.

The Discwasher is junk compared to really washing records and then using a carbon fiber brush, like the one from Audioquest, to maintain records after cleaning and before playing...I know, I used DW's for over 25 years before getting my VPI....tried the DW ONCE since getting the VPI and will not do that again....

A quick, but decent enough, wash and rinse on my VPI takes a little under 2 minutes from slipping the record out of it's jacket to placing it on my table...that way I don't mind doing every record before playing them...if I want to just rinse with distilled water takes me a little less than a minute...

The record cleaning machines are just the way to go if you have a large enough collection....or if you buy used records and want to get them as clean as possible...or if you want to take brand new records and get all the mold release compounds off them...etc...

Oh, and the previous poster's comment about the 16.5 being $540 used is wrong, you can get them new for that price from at least one place I know of...I know it's just a typo on jlc76's part!
 
Is a RCM worth the cost? :yes: If you are a DIYer you can make one every bit as good or better than a VPI 16.5 for a relatively small cost.

I don't know if hand washing can get a record as clean as a RCM, but a RCM is much easier to use.
 
Last edited:
the project at the top of my list now is a RCM. Looking around at different plans, I believe I have some great ideas and it will actually be a very inexpensive project - and done properly, should be a very capable rcm.
I am hoping to document in case it actually comes out as good as it is pictured in my head.....
could always just use a wet dry vac and keep it very simple - maybe not as convenient, but apparently still works great
 
Owning an RCM is tantamount to good listening enjoyment if you buy used vinyl, whether from a record store, or yard sale, or thrift store, and even helps new vinyl.

The difference is always noticeable, from slight (new records) to noticeable (record store purchases that hand clean) to dramatic (records never cleaned or that have picked up a coating of dirt, dust, fingerprints, and/or a coating of cigarrette or pot smoke surface haze).

If you're serious about your vinyl, buy one or build your own.


The VPI 16.5 is the best bang for buck.
 
I will take people's arguments that RCMs are a good way of cleaning LPs.

But, one question: Do the RCM owners clean their LPs on the RCM for every play? Or is it a deep cleaning tool that is used occasionaly and complemented by a carbon fibre brush for day to day?

Having seen close up pictures of the VPI and other RCMs, even some DIY mods to them, I can't consider it sane to sell these for $500 and more. For that kind of money I would expect a nicely done machine with a silent vacum that doesn't spill water and get nasty after a while.

What I see in the current RCMs are less than stellar DIY contraptions.

Any feedback on that?
 
SaSi said:
I will take people's arguments that RCMs are a good way of cleaning LPs.

But, one question: Do the RCM owners clean their LPs on the RCM for every play? Or is it a deep cleaning tool that is used occasionaly and complemented by a carbon fibre brush for day to day?

Having seen close up pictures of the VPI and other RCMs, even some DIY mods to them, I can't consider it sane to sell these for $500 and more. For that kind of money I would expect a nicely done machine with a silent vacum that doesn't spill water and get nasty after a while.

What I see in the current RCMs are less than stellar DIY contraptions.

Any feedback on that?
Click to expand...

I don't think it is possible to silence a vacuum machine. And you can't get stuff clean without adding a solvent and ending with dirty solvent. So I think your expectation is unrealisticly, with all due respect, mind you. That said, vinyl just sounds so much better cleaned with a RCM.

People spend $500+ on all manner of recreational equipment, not to mention a good suit, a nice pair of boots, a lawnmower. Why should a RCM be any cheaper? Mine has rewarded me with hundreds of $1 records that are nice and clean and playable.
 
I have the KAB EV-1 RCM which is sold right from www.kabusa.com for $159. I have cleaned all my ~350 records and as far as I'm concerned has totally paid for itself in the results. Especially since most of my used vinyl are 1-2 bucks each and not always in the best condition. Now most look and play like new.

the KAB EV-1 is on the cheaper end since its all manual. You have to put the fluid on, scrub it in, flip the record, turn on the vacuum, make the rotations. and repeat as necessary. But it only takes a couple minutes to do a single LP and the results are immediate.

The first time I cleaned a battered $.49 thrift store record and it went from a dirty stinkin mess to pop/click free I knew this was worth every penny. I'm not afraid to buy a "dirty" used vinyl anymore as long as its scratch free. They all seem to clean right up and look and play like or close to new.

I can't believe I went as long as I did without one. I clean all my records now as soon as their in my possession, new and used.
 
Isotonic said:
I don't think it is possible to silence a vacuum machine. And you can't get stuff clean without adding a solvent and ending with dirty solvent. So I think your expectation is unrealisticly, with all due respect, mind you. That said, vinyl just sounds so much better cleaned with a RCM.

People spend $500+ on all manner of recreational equipment, not to mention a good suit, a nice pair of boots, a lawnmower. Why should a RCM be any cheaper? Mine has rewarded me with hundreds of $1 records that are nice and clean and playable.
Click to expand...

I get what you say. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original statement.

My dishwasher get's all sorts of dirty stuff inside and has been getting that for 20 years. It still is almost as good as new, with only a few scars of rust in the door rims.

The VPI machines are made of wood and the fluids used in the cleaning process attack the material and make it look ugly. And I've read more than once comments from VPI users that complain of fluid spills and an underpowered suction motor. Now, if it spills water, make it out of molded plastic or aluminium. Somthing that can withstand the fluids.

I'm fairly confident that an experienced DIYer can make a much better RCM than the onces sold by various makers. IMHO, these "manufactured" RCMs are nothing more than average DIY contraptions with a substantial margin. Which is understandable as the market is small and isn't getting any larger.
 
SaSi said:
...The VPI machines are made of wood and the fluids used in the cleaning process attack the material and make it look ugly. And I've read more than once comments from VPI users that complain of fluid spills and an underpowered suction motor. Now, if it spills water, make it out of molded plastic or aluminium. Somthing that can withstand the fluids.

I'm fairly confident that an experienced DIYer can make a much better RCM than the onces sold by various makers. IMHO, these "manufactured" RCMs are nothing more than average DIY contraptions with a substantial margin. Which is understandable as the market is small and isn't getting any larger.
Click to expand...

Well, mine looks like new.

I'm not sure how messy some folks are, but I squirt the cleaning solution on the record, brush it well while it's rotating, vacuum it, and there aren't any splatters anywhere. It's perfectly clean inside the top compartment. I have absolutely no complaints about it, and I think the price was quite reasonable. Maybe one day I'll veneer the outside in bubinga, and change to a directional, hospital-grade cord, but for now I love it.

It isn't any noisier than any vacuum I own. I don't believe I've ever heard a quiet, much less silent, vacuum. Vacuums are noisy. All of them.

Underpowered suction motor?? It slams the suction wand down on the LP against the push of the return spring and holds it tightly against the LP while the LP is being rotated by the motor. Now, maybe the folks with this problem aren't spending much time doing the scrubbing, but they're running the vacuum way too long while doing 50 records at a time and the vacuum is overheating, but I've never had a problem, even while doing multiple records. Never.

DIY?? Do you want to make one? Or are you talking about using molded plastic or aluminum or stainless steel and being able to sell it for $540 and still make enough of a profit to make it worthwhile? Give it a try. Members here on AK and on other sites have definitely done DIY RCM's. A few of them are gorgeous. First, turn on your turntable, push your finger firmly down on the platter, and see if it keeps turning while you're pushing. It stops, doesn't it? What kind of motor torque specifications do you think are required to keep the platter turning while you're brushing, and while the vacuum has the suction wand firmly attached to the turning LP? Take the total time spent, including the time looking for and sourcing parts and supplies, times $10/hr, plus cost of all materials, and see what you actually paid for it when it's done.

If you want to enjoy playing LP's, an RCM makes the difference between enjoying it, and giving it up out of frustration over how bad it sounds.

Keep in mind, an RCM won't fix scratches. I shake my head in dismay at some of the records I see people buy at the thrifts. Used for Frisbees, they were.:no:

No, you don't use it every time you play the record. Clean the record well, put it in a new inner sleeve, and use a carbon fiber brush before each play.

I can't imagine listening to records (more than casually) and not owning one. It's one of the most important steps to making this hobby so enjoyable.:thmbsp:
 
I have a VPI 16.5 and think it is great. I'm presently using Osage Audio's #15 cleaner and pure water rinse (total ~$45 +shipping). Probably the best cleaner I have used.

YMMV
 
Last edited:
I use a Clearaudio Smart Matrix RCM since last year, and can say it is the best piece of gear I bought in many years! It's a superb machine. I use it regularly, before playing every side of a record. It takes a few seconds to do it properly, and it has become now part of the ritual, as using the Discwasher stuff had been in the past. If I get a used LP, I ran the procedure 2 or 3 times if one is not enough. Even the LPs in the worst possible state give up after 3 cleaning cycles. I recommend a good RCM to anybody with serious interest in his or her LP collection.
 
More answers:

No machine will remove scratches, I'll bet you knew that.

Dish soap is not that good to use on LPs. There are a LOT of cleaners out there.

I bought my VPI 16.5 for what they now go used for ~$300. I know that is steep. You can buy a cheaper one and eventually get one that is better.

I think you will want a wet/vacuum removal cleaner for thrift store finds.

Just my opinion.
 
VPI 16.5 with Disk Doctor cleaner and distilled water rinse. Best results I've ever had.
 
One other thought - when you compare what many folks have invested in their record collection to the cost of a good RCM, and RCM is an investment that becomes cost-justified.
 
I bought a VPI 16.5 a couple of months ago. I tried the soap & brush method and it's a slow process and I'm too much of a perfectionist to ever be satisfied with the finished product. Besides I really think you need to suck out all that dust & grime out of the grooves anyways. I been picking up a lot of LP's at thrifts and used record stores and couldn't keep up with the cleaning without the RCM. The money saved buying $1 - $2 LP's pays for the machine in the end and RCM's have a decent resale value. A new or used VPI 16.5 is probably your best bet, CB

PS, There is a VPI Record Cleaner HW-17F for $675 on CL in Phoenix - $1299 new -
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom