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Is my cleaning brush scratching my discs?

jgordon

jgordon

Super Member
I use two cleaning brushes with my vpi. I first use the VPI nylon bristeled brush below with the cleaning solution:
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And then I follow it with the Nitty Gritty velvet covered brush with distilled water to rinse:
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What I noticed for the first time tonight is that at least on the deadwax, something I'm doing in the cleaning process is leaving microscratches. I have to believe that if it's scratching the deadwax, it's not doing good things to the grooves.

Has anyone else noticed this, either with these brushes or in general?

The only other thing I can think of, if these brushes are proven safe, is that I'm washing a layer of crud off the deadwax which is in fact revealing scratches that were already there (the way car wax hides minor spiderwebbing). The only thing is, they look like brush marks, more haphazard than a rotational scratch from the stylus.

Thoughts?
 

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I have that brush. No issues you described. I use that one first with Record Research Lab deep clean, Vac, then go over again with Disc Dr. brushes and the RRL regular cleaner, then Vac again. No problem's, only sweet sounds and very quiet, depending on the original condition of the album. How hard are you scrubbing and in what direction, circular, or against the groove? Not meant as an insult just asking. Some people..believe me..have no clue. :no:

I'm using the VPI 16.5 machine. Noiser records I use Gruve Glide as a final step (god help me I'm out of the closet) sparingly , as directed with excellent results on thrift store albums and such, that have more background noise. And no, I dont get stylus buildup from it because I use it sparingly. YRMY.

Thanks,

007
 
The thing to do would be to brush a little area in the runout of a record without scratches with each brush separately and see which one is scratching the vinyl.

Is that second one an old Sound Guard brush? It looks like it.

Doug
 
The second, velvet brush is made by Nitty Gritty. I was using one with my HW-16.5 setup as my first cleaning step brush until the knap of the velvet gave up. Never had any scratch issues. I've since gone to using only the Mobile Fidelity brushes for my cleaning steps. They have much larger contact surfaces to clean with, and I think they do a superior job.

For the rinse step, since you aren't doing any scrubbing, you can use a decent quality paintbrush to spread the distilled water around the record. A 3" brush will cover the entire grooved playing surface in one pass.
 
I wonder, is there a suitable cheap replacement felt for the Nitty Gritty brush. Ive purchased 2 over the years and probably need another one but I hate to shell out the coin from Nitty.
 
mid-fi-ry said:
I wonder, is there a suitable cheap replacement felt for the Nitty Gritty brush. Ive purchased 2 over the years and probably need another one but I hate to shell out the coin from Nitty.
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Not unless you go DIY. That's one of the attractions of the MoFi brushes ot me. The cleaning pads are user-replaceable.
 
I use the MoFi brush (it's like your 2nd brush pictured, in that it uses velvet) to concentrate the liquid in the area just after the area the brush hits, and at the same time an inch or 2 away from it I use the 1st brush you have pictured (the one with the bristles). You don't want to use the bristle brush on a dry record or it'll scratch it, and I just feel more confident it won't when I use these 2 brushes together so close...if I don't, it seems the liquid dissipates before it gets to the bristles...I could be all wrong since I've only have my VPI 16.5 for a week
 
Peter_Klim said:
I use the MoFi brush (it's like your 2nd brush pictured, in that it uses velvet) to concentrate the liquid in the area just after the area the brush hits, and at the same time an inch or 2 away from it I use the 1st brush you have pictured (the one with the bristles). You don't want to use the bristle brush on a dry record or it'll scratch it, and I just feel more confident it won't when I use these 2 brushes together so close...if I don't, it seems the liquid dissipates before it gets to the bristles...I could be all wrong since I've only have my VPI 16.5 for a week
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Due to the large pad size, the MoFi brushes absorb a bit of the cleaning fluid when dry, so the first record usually takes a little more cleaning solution. But thereafter, the pad is saturated and you don't need to use as much fluid.

Also, with the MoFi brushes, there's really no need to use the bristle brush.

For a cheap, DIY solution, try the Shur Line-type paint pad refills from Lowe's or Home Depot.
ConvenienceProd_PainterPad.jpg
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I've bought these (or similar) in the past that were mounted on throw-away styrofoam handles that worked well. These pads don't have as many bristles as the MoFi (or similar) brushes, they will shed, won't last as long, and they are backed with a foam pad that absorbs solution, but they do a passable job of cleaning, are reusable, and they're cheap.
 
Hello JGordon,
Perhaps everything in your process should be held suspect?

If you are absolutely sure it is sleeks from cleaning you're seeing on your vinyl, rather than streaks of residue, the two brushes, and perhaps even the Velvet Strips on the Vacuum Wand could be suspect?

The questions will be, how many vacuum cycles has the machine done , or how many LP sides? If it's over 300-350, you might be due to change out the Strips on the Wand.

As some others have mentioned, the Mo-Fi Brush Pads are a nice option, the Pads are user replaceable for not too much money, and you should have one for each step of your cleaning process.

If it is thrift shop finds you are generally cleaning, perhaps a pre-clean with a soft micro cloth, or another brush, gently "dusting" the LP before install on the RCM may help lessen transferrence of crud onto your brushes, and wand, Rinse the Wand periodically, after a few records with some distilled water, and a soft clean toothbrush.

New Velvet Strips for the Vacuum Wand can be gotten from the Disc Doctor, for less money than buying a new Wand, I believe they come 4 to a pack for something like $15. Mark
 
I also use the Shur Line paint pad for my cleaning. I prefer the smaller one. It takes two passes on the record but I think it's easier to handle. They're cheap and easy to replace the pads and seem to work great.
 
I'd been using a paint pad for a while and found it wasn't getting the records as clean as a nylon bristle paintbrush. I've recleaned several LPs I'd done with the pad, second time with the paintbrush and there's been a very noticeable improvement. I haven't had to double clean many LPs that I did with a paintbrush the first time around. I hold the brush so the bristles are angled slightly into the grooves... not the way one would paint... and I can feel the bristles get into the grooves that way. The paint pad seems to skate on top of the grooves more.
 
Appreciate all the feedback. It was the VPI nylon brush (first one pictured). It scratched the hell out of some dry deadwax. Never touching another disc that I own. Just wish I'd figured it out sooner. Fortunately, my initial suspicion, which was that the nylon bristles were too large to get in the grooves, hopefully was right.

Anyway, just velvet for me from here on out.

Update: Just ordered two more Nitty Gritty velvet brushes.
 
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jgordon said:
Appreciate all the feedback. It was the VPI nylon brush (first one pictured). It scratched the hell out of some dry deadwax. Never touching another disc that I own. Just wish I'd figured it out sooner. Fortunately, my initial suspicion, which was that the nylon bristles were too large to get in the grooves, hopefully was right.

Anyway, just velvet for me from here on out.

Update: Just ordered two more Nitty Gritty velvet brushes.
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Excellent detective work, Mr. Gordon!

Imagine VPI selling something like that!

Hopefully it just scratched the lands between the grooves.

EDIT: I also have a feeling that people should be checking carbon fiber brushes for the same thing.

Doug
 
Well, it was your good and simple advice that led me to it, so thank you for that.

Doug G. said:
Excellent detective work, Mr. Gordon!

Imagine VPI selling something like that!

Hopefully it just scratched the lands between the grooves.

EDIT: I also have a feeling that people should be checking carbon fiber brushes for the same thing.

Doug
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Doug G. said:
Excellent detective work, Mr. Gordon!

Imagine VPI selling something like that!

Hopefully it just scratched the lands between the grooves.

EDIT: I also have a feeling that people should be checking carbon fiber brushes for the same thing.

Doug
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Doubtful Doug, that a Carbon Fiber Brush would scratch a record, but I've heard some recent information about CF brushes, that they shouldn't be used wet, as a cleaning brush.

I've heard that some of these brushes, and perhaps all of them, have their bristles coated with a varnish. And that using them wet can dissolve this varnish onto your records.

I've never used one wet, and after hearing such, never will. Mark
 
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