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Signs that you need to recap

QSilver

Super Member
Hi,

I;ve got a few old Pioneer amps (SA-*20 ones)

I just wondered as some sound different to others, could this be a sign that the capacitors are starting to pack up?

What are the signs in terms of sound quality that the capacitors or other components are starting to let go?

Thanks
 
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I (and other people) would say that it probably needs a recap (couldn't hurt) but you might want to see what the bias settings & voltages are on the one good working amp, compared to one of the other amps just to see if it could be a bias issue.
 
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The first thing you need to do is a complete DeOxit cleaning (see the sticky - I sure ain't typing all that over again! :no: :D). Make sure you check/clean everything mentioned there. This will eliminate any problems that arise from the first and most common source of sound degradation and noise: dirty contact surfaces.

While you are in there, take a look at the caps. Any with bulging ends or opened seams or stuff visibly leaking out of them MUST be replaced, of course. Don't confuse glue-like stuff used to anchor some large caps against vibration with stuff leaking out: look carefully to see the difference.

Check DC offset. If you have more DC coming out than you should, it's probably due to aging caps, and can be a sign that a recap might be in order. IF it's only a wee little bit more than you'd like, you don't have to rush, but if it is well out-of-spec, I'd take it as a good indicator that it's time to get out the soldering iron.

After that, fire it up and give the sound a good listen. Do you hear any strange noises? Anything that sounds like a helicopter, going whoop-whoop in rhythmic cycles? Anything sizzling like frying bacon? If so, then you have some SERIOUS cap issues with at least one cap entering its final-stage death throes, and it's only a matter of time (probably not long) before it gives up the ghost entirely. If you hear those kind of noises, DO NOT use the gear until you can do a recap. Otherwise, you risk taking out other, and perhaps costly or hard-to-find, components inside.

With other forms of sonic degradation, it can be hard to identify the cause without some experience and/or testing. In general, sound will become thinner, more brittle-sounding, more compressed and less dynamic, less full, less full-range, etc... as caps age. The background noise level ("noise floor") will also increase, making details less distinct, soundstage less clear, etc... Your gear will begin to sound less like hi-fi stuff and more like an old transistor radio, if that helps describe it.

The problem here is that other things can also contribute to deteriorated sound. For example, some old carbon resistors get noisier as they age, and contribute to a less silent background. However, most of the time, the bulk of sound deterioration is due to aging caps. Capacitors by their nature dry out and sonically deteriorate over time, more than most other components. If you have vintage gear that is over 20 years old and has not been recapped, the odds are high that it is due for a recap, and will sound MUCH better once the caps have been replaced. You can use an ESR meter to get a good estimate of how "aged" the caps are, but in general as soon as some start to fail (or get close to failure), it's probably best to replace all of the ones of similar age. Not everyone agrees with this approach, but I think it makes the most sense.

New caps are generally better made than they used to be, as cap-manufacturing technology has advanced over the years, and you may decide to use ones with better characteristics (a complicated subject, as what is "better" will depend on the position/function in the circuit), tighter tolerances, etc... to "upgrade" the sound.

As long as you are (or your tech is) in there, check all the other components, too: re-mount transistors with fresh thermal grease (Important! The stuff dries out, just as capacitors do.), check resistors for being in spec and if they are old carbon types, replace them, etc... Set bias and DC offset if appropriate; get a proper alignment if it's a tuner (not a job for amateurs; send it to an expert), and you should be worry-free for years to come...

...until the contacts get dirty and the new caps start becoming old caps....
:D
 
After that, fire it up and give the sound a good listen. Do you hear any strange noises? Anything that sounds like a helicopter, going whoop-whoop in rhythmic cycles? Anything sizzling like frying bacon? If so, then you have some SERIOUS cap issues with at least one cap entering its final-stage death throes, and it's only a matter of time (probably not long) before it gives up the ghost entirely. If you hear those kind of noises, DO NOT use the gear until you can do a recap. Otherwise, you risk taking out other, and perhaps costly or hard-to-find, components inside.
:D

I think this is one of the most important statements I have read in awhile. We should trust our ears and if we notice something that sounds like a problem with our equipment and we should trust our intuition and turn it off until we find out whats going on. How many times has equipment been unnecessarily damaged because a warning sign was ignored? It is always easier to rebuild a working unit than repair a damaged unit.
 
if it's more than 25 years old, that's a sign that it will benefit from a recap, and it probably should have one if it's something you want to hold onto and keep running for a long time. along the lines of what Arkay said, if it's really obvious that it needs a recap, then it's good not to wait because blown caps can cause collateral damage.
 
I (and other people) would say that it probably needs a recap (couldn't hurt) but you might want to see what the bias settings & voltages are on the one good working amp, compared to one of the other amps just to see if it could be a bias issue.

How can I tell what the bias settings are or should be ? Do I need the service manual?
 
Bulging, tops sagging, leakage from the vent hole, shrunken covers, 60 Hz hum at speakers, and intermittent distortion are all signs new caps are in order. Old caps sound compressed and veiled, which is also an indicator.
 
How can I tell what the bias settings are or should be ? Do I need the service manual?

For most all adjustments you WILL need the schematic/service manual for the amp/receiver. The spec's and procedure is in the manual.

Larry
 
I can easily hear the difference in my vintage equipment that has been rebuilt or recapped versus that which hasn't. One big difference is in the highs. A vintage piece that hasn't received a recap may sound all right but lacks the high end liveliness that you find in a recapped peice or new amp. I agree with the others; if it is older than 25 years, get it recapped.:yes:
 
Boy am I glad I found this thread!

I just got my hands on a Sony TA-1010 stereo integrated amp.

The guy who sold it to me on eBay said it was in working order - which it is. But the working is somewhat debatable. The amp seems to work fine initially but I do notice that I have to turn the volume to about the the 11 'o clock position to make it play even softly in the reading room.

I also noticed that the left channel isn't as loud as the right, so I have the push the balance to bias towards the left channel so that everything is balanced nicely. When I plugged inputs into the Phono, I noticed that "helicopter" sound. The AUX 1 which it's on right seems fine. There is some crackling with the volume control.

How desperately do I need to change my capacitors? Can I use it for another week without damaging it? I'm worried because this thing is a vintage unit, about 38 years old and I love it!!
 
When your toupee no longer covers that embarrasing bald spot.:D
 
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