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Music download users and classical music lovers

guiller

guiller

Toscaninichus Australis
Here there is an extract from an interview to the classical music label Naxos founder, Klaus Heymann, published in the Gramophone magazine (Naxos is one of the most active labels):

Gramophone: Describe the challenges the rapid growth of online music has posed you.

Klaus Heymann: We have to be quite clear about the fact that there will be the CD – or a physical carrier – for many more years to come. The classical CD is not declining at the same rate as pop or rock. This year, if we look at various territories for the first four or five months, it’s actually pretty stable – some are down, some are up, but on average I think CDs this year will be the same as in 2009. We don’t have that rapid decline.

G: How would you explain that – is it the collecting aspect connected to classical music?

KH: I think we are basically down to the core collector. And I think that’s at a stable level. Any changes in sales are more due to repertoire, or one-offs – like in Japan, where Harmonia Mundi sold 100,000 copies of Nobuyuki Tsujii [pianist, and Gold Medal winner of the Van Cliburn Competition]. These kind of things can change it dramatically. But by and large I think we’ve now found a fairly stable market for physical product. Beyond that of course we all look at where will it happen online – what is there beyond the physical business? And it looks like downloads will not be it.

Source: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature...ce=ADESTRA&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_content=Click

I was wondering if these statements find a correlation in AK members who are music files downloaders, that is, how many of you are actually classical music listeners, and, in the affirmative case, what percentage of your listening time goes into classical music.
 
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CDs are so cheap at a store near me, that in the last year I bought more CDs than in any year previously.... and I have downloaded less....


jk
 
If I was to dowload classical music I would have to burn it into a CD as I am not about to listen through the PC speakers. Then you need a case for the CD and a label, and the inserts for the jewel case. Easier to simply buy the CD for $6 or $7 as that's what the sales generally run.
 
guiller said:
Here there is an extract from an interview to the classical music label Naxos founder, Klaus Heymann, published in the Gramophone magazine (Naxos is one of the most active labels):

Gramophone: Describe the challenges the rapid growth of online music has posed you.

Klaus Heymann: We have to be quite clear about the fact that there will be the CD – or a physical carrier – for many more years to come. The classical CD is not declining at the same rate as pop or rock. This year, if we look at various territories for the first four or five months, it’s actually pretty stable – some are down, some are up, but on average I think CDs this year will be the same as in 2009. We don’t have that rapid decline.

G: How would you explain that – is it the collecting aspect connected to classical music?

KH: I think we are basically down to the core collector. And I think that’s at a stable level. Any changes in sales are more due to repertoire, or one-offs – like in Japan, where Harmonia Mundi sold 100,000 copies of Nobuyuki Tsujii [pianist, and Gold Medal winner of the Van Cliburn Competition]. These kind of things can change it dramatically. But by and large I think we’ve now found a fairly stable market for physical product. Beyond that of course we all look at where will it happen online – what is there beyond the physical business? And it looks like downloads will not be it.

Source: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature...ce=ADESTRA&utm_medium=EMAIL&utm_content=Click

I was wondering if these statements find a correlation in AK members who are music files downloaders, that is, how many of you are actually classical music listeners, and, in the affirmative case, what percentage of your listening time goes into classical music.
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MP3s do not do music justice. Not for me. Also, classical CDs usually come with liner notes that are very informative about the music and the composer along with the musicians involved.
 
if I was more into digital music I would be all over the highrez and lossless downloads offered by some companies. Of course, i would be archiving them all to disc or tape.
 
I've already seen this quote from the interview when you posted it elsewhere guiller, and you know where I stand on the subject. I believe the compact disc will survive as a large niche among audiophiles for quite a long time to come.

I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment, just to make a point. Someone could argue that Heymann is just saying this because there's so much at stake for him, considering the seemingly-endless number of Naxos classical music titles, infamous for consistent sound quality and laughably low prices. But there's little reason to believe Naxos wouldn't jump on the all-digital bandwagon if that were the only choice left them. This gives Heymann's argument more credibility IMO. He's confident about the future of the format when it comes to classical music listeners, at least for the time being.

That said, I'd like to point out a very interesting somewhat-recent release from Naxos. It's titled "The Virtual Haydn" (one of my favorites!), and it's a Blu-ray disc. Here's their own description:

This 4-disc Box Set features 4 dual-layer discs containing 15 hours of high-resolution audio in 5.0 surround and 2.0 stereo, 3 hours of high-definition video, including Playing the Room, a documentary film with subtitles in Dutch, French, German and Japanese.

So Naxos isn't afraid to branch out and try new formats, but it seems they'll be mostly sticking to physical mediums for now. I'd love to own the Blu-ray disc in question but I currently lack the financial means and Blu-ray player to do so, and it's not cheap.

Naxos also has some DVD-A titles but we all know how that fiasco turned out...
 
Naxos does some online files sales also if I'm not mistaken. They're quite pro-active with new formats other than SACDs (as far as I know).

And I agree with the interview. I tried to D/L classical music once but became disappointed with the small number of available titles and the poor quality (Mp3s just won't do).

I listen to classical music pretty much 98%.
 
Mr. Lin said:
So Naxos isn't afraid to branch out and try new formats, but it seems they'll be mostly sticking to physical mediums for now.
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I believe that collectors are attached to physical objects, and Heymann was implying that a typical classical music lover has a collector profile, therefore it makes sense to provide physical media of higher quality to that portion of the music lovers market. Objects have a spatial identity that makes them more unique to one person's memory, IMHO. On the other hand, browsing through a large collection is easier for objects put together (with some order) in some spatial region. Human sight viewing is incredibly fast to process information and detecting an individual object out of a large ensemble of similar ones. I know this by daily experience: just browse a few seconds through my CD or LP collection (like browsing though a fine menu) and then I say: this is what I wanted to listen to today!
 
Al of my CDs and LPs are cataloged with MS Access so I can easily browse online, and also avoid buying the same tthing twice. However, even if I had them all online on a second hard drive what would be the point? Even the best sound card will not equal the receivers I have so feeding from PC to receiver will lose summat in the translation. This means creating CDs with the attendant labelling, jewel case liners, etc. As has already been noted I would lose the liner notes. It is really not simply the case of collecting physical objects but simply cost and convenience.

I have made CDs of some of my LPs but only because of the difficulty of getting a 12" LP into the CD slot of the car radio.
 
guiller said:
I believe that collectors are attached to physical objects, and Heymann was implying that a typical classical music lover has a collector profile, therefore it makes sense to provide physical media of higher quality to that portion of the music lovers market.
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Well, at least in my case he's correct, because I fit the collector profile.

merrylander said:
I have made CDs of some of my LPs but only because of the difficulty of getting a 12" LP into the CD slot of the car radio.
Click to expand...

Hint: Try using some type of lubricant. Trust me.
 
guiller said:
I believe that collectors are attached to physical objects, and Heymann was implying that a typical classical music lover has a collector profile, therefore it makes sense to provide physical media of higher quality to that portion of the music lovers market. Objects have a spatial identity that makes them more unique to one person's memory, IMHO. On the other hand, browsing through a large collection is easier for objects put together (with some order) in some spatial region. Human sight viewing is incredibly fast to process information and detecting an individual object out of a large ensemble of similar ones. I know this by daily experience: just browse a few seconds through my CD or LP collection (like browsing though a fine menu) and then I say: this is what I wanted to listen to today!
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Exactly! Well said.
 
Physical media is dying.

guiller said:
I was wondering if these statements find a correlation in AK members who are music files downloaders, that is, how many of you are actually classical music listeners, and, in the affirmative case, what percentage of your listening time goes into classical music.
Click to expand...

I am a huge classical fan and most of my classical collection consists of LP's and Open Reel tapes. The rest are CDs. About 60% of my music is classical/opera.

However, today I download new music through iTunes and play the files through my HT system using TV. Even though I miss the album liners and the mini booklets in CDs, I'm in it for the music only.

All media is going digital. It's happening. We can't stop it. E-Books are out-selling print books. Physical media is dying. As for costs, physical media and electronic media costs almost the same to produce. Paper and plastic are a very small part of the expense.

By the way, I am a newly retired ad agency print buyer. So even though technology forced me to retire a few years earlier, I am embracing it.

Besides, buying extra hard drives takes up a lot less space than a shelves and shelves of tapes, disks and books. I will buy an eBook for my iPad before I buy the hard copy edition.
 
jetlag26 said:
I am a huge classical fan and most of my classical collection consists of LP's and Open Reel tapes. The rest are CDs. About 60% of my music is classical/opera.

However, today I download new music through iTunes and play the files through my HT system using TV. Even though I miss the album liners and the mini booklets in CDs, I'm in it for the music only.

All media is going digital. It's happening. We can't stop it. E-Books are out-selling print books. Physical media is dying. As for costs, physical media and electronic media costs almost the same to produce. Paper and plastic are a very small part of the expense.

By the way, I am a newly retired ad agency print buyer. So even though technology forced me to retire a few years earlier, I am embracing it.

Besides, buying extra hard drives takes up a lot less space than a shelves and shelves of tapes, disks and books. I will buy an eBook for my iPad before I buy the hard copy edition.
Click to expand...

I understand why you think this, it seems to be the only conclusion based on what's happening. However, I've said this before, it's all happening so fast that I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about what's going to happen. I have serious doubts about physical media going extinct any time soon. And I suspect that in another decade we're going to look back at all these predictions and think, man, we jumped the gun on that one.
 
Mr. Lin said:
And I suspect that in another decade we're going to look back at all these predictions and think, man, we jumped the gun on that one.
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Why? What gun is there to jump if the downloads available are higher quality than the red book CDs we can buy today. A CD is just a file on a piece of plastic, why waste the plastic and transportation costs to get it to my house. Heck they could even expand the liner notes to include a whole lot more information than fits on the little cards that come with current CDs and it might actually be bigger than 8 point font.

I'm not seeing the downside here.
 
Scuzzer said:
Why? What gun is there to jump if the downloads available are higher quality than the red book CDs we can buy today. A CD is just a file on a piece of plastic, why waste the plastic and transportation costs to get it to my house. Heck they could even expand the liner notes to include a whole lot more information than fits on the little cards that come with current CDs and it might actually be bigger than 8 point font.

I'm not seeing the downside here.
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A lot of recordings didn't get transferred to CDs from LPs/Tapes which is one reason why there are still a number of analogue fans out there.

The same will probably happen with the CD-to-Downloads transition. With particular musical genres such as classical music the situation gets even more problematic as simply there are so many CDs that have been released which will not be converted into downloadable formats, at least for a long while.

My impression is 'CDs-to-Downloads' doesn't appear to be as vigorous as ADD was. Probably because you don't make so much money out of it.

Another issue is that good quality downloadable formats tend to be very big in sizes. Unless internet download allowances go unlimited and very fast in many countries downloading heavy FLACs as opposed to light mp3s will have some serious challenges.

That's when you actually have commercially available FLAC titles by the by. When you think about it, it's been quite a while since we saw those 'lossless' formats on the net however commercial exploitation of those formats hasn't been all that active so far.

These will all make some people to look back, in distant future when CDs become hard(er) to find, and lament over lost recordings that have been buried with CDs.

Plus, there seems to be some herds that attach sentimental values to CDs, just as some vinyls fans do.
 
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Mr. Lin said:
However, I've said this before, it's all happening so fast that I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about what's going to happen. I have serious doubts about physical media going extinct any time soon. And I suspect that in another decade we're going to look back at all these predictions and think, man, we jumped the gun on that one.
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It is a process, not an event. Physical media will always be around, but it will soon no longer be mainstream. Records are still being produced even 30 years after the introduction of the CD, but look at the scale.

Consumers today see content as being consumed, and no longer need to own. People still want to "own" their music, especially classical fans. However, the need to have a physical item is diminishing.

The movie industry is driving this transition too. Now that the DVD is being replaced by streaming, you will see a diminishing in DVD sales soon. Most movies viewers need only to see once. There is no need to buy a disk.

Once this phase is established with the new guard of distributing HD media, the need for owning physical media for music will follow.

What happens, and it will happen, when the shelves of CDs and DVDs at your local Best Buy are bare? Will this stop you from buying music? No.

You will either go mainstream or shop the second hand shops for it.
 
One forgets our good folks at the Funny Cookie Company who have now allowed tiered pricing of broadband. If that happens DVDs will suddenly look much better.
 
Scuzzer said:
Why? What gun is there to jump if the downloads available are higher quality than the red book CDs we can buy today. A CD is just a file on a piece of plastic, why waste the plastic and transportation costs to get it to my house. Heck they could even expand the liner notes to include a whole lot more information than fits on the little cards that come with current CDs and it might actually be bigger than 8 point font.

I'm not seeing the downside here.
Click to expand...

Most of the downloads are not higher quality than Red Book CD, they're worse. More significantly, within the audiophile community there is a prevalent obsessive need to have and hold the music, to experience it on more levels than just listening. I'm not saying people are wrong in predicting that downloading music is the way of the future, and that CDs are going to become much less common. I am saying those who claim the CD is dead, or will be sometime soon, are probably going to be very wrong. Too many people have and cherish large CD collections. They cherish them because it makes listening to music a more interactive experience. Some like to respond to that argument with "for me it's all about the music," implying that those of us who enjoy physical mediums are just obsessive collectors who don't take time to appreciate the music we're collecting, but in fact it's very much the opposite; we're just finding more ways to enjoy it. Sever-based audio systems don't offer that.

So years from now when Ron's "What CD are you listening to right now" thread is still at the top of the digital formats forum, you'll see what I mean. :D
 
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