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KLF-10s have loose cabinet braces rattling

RS Steve

RS Steve

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I remember reading about some KLF-20's with the same issue, I think the early models had bracing comming loose and rattling inside. MY newly aquired 10's are doing some serious rattling and was hoping someone could direct me on what the easiest fix is for this problem. I have not taken them apart yet but plan to open them up soon.
 
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Steve the KLF were a different issue. They were a complicated problem which started with a bad choice and a supplier problem. The baffle boards came loose on a whole bunch of KLF as a result of a dective adhesive bonding the melamine veneered baffles in place (both front and back) The baffles haf black textured melamine on both sides which looks great but which does not stick to much. So Klipsch sourced a hot melt adhesive which stuck pretty well to the melamine surface. Then the adhesive supplied was not formulated properly and you have vibrating baffle boards.. The internal braces are fine just a problem with the baffles. They can be repaired a number of ways some which imo are not so effective other methods will not ever come loose..
You need to remove your drivers and get inside with a rubber mallet and work your way around the baffles tapping to find where they are loose. One of my four KLF20 had one baffle half loose push it with your finger and it left the cabinet. I would recommend the more time consuming method of simply removing the baffles and the old hot melt (scrape it all off to bare wood) and reglue with wood glue white or yellow. The pl type adhesives don't really stick well to melamine. If you don't believe me start asking adhesive manufacturers if they have on which will bond very well to melamine and get back to me with your findings. while you are inside you can add some additional braces. Best regards Moray James.
 
You are correct, I have one apart and the rear baffle is whats rattling. I will take them both to my friends cabinet shop and fix them right up, including more bracing. Man they were sounding good until a certain volume level.
 
Moray is correct as I too have helped repair a KLF20 with the same loose motor boards. Klipsch fixed the QC issue and the later series did not have this problem. When the KLF20 first came out my friend purchased a new pair at our local Klipsch dealer. After a few months he noticed the loose boards. A Klipsch Regional Rep. came to his house with a New pair of KLF20 that has just been built with new glue etc and he traded speakers with him and helped him set them up and gave him a test recording CD( a lot of LFE) to check the speakers with. The new one's are still like new.
Fast foward a few years later and we found a pair of mint looking used KLF20 for sale local and when we showed the owner his too had loose boards we purchased them much cheeper. Now that we repaired them he has 4 and the matching C7 center with 2 subs for his HT system...:thmbsp: We used Liquid nails, I hope we are NOT removing the drivers etc and doing the repair again as I did not know about the glue being used on this material. We added braces where the motor board and the sides connect, I think Moray made some extra braces that stiffened up the center of the cabinet if I remeber seeing his pic;s from his repair several years ago. Take your time removing the motor board.:yes:
 
I repaired the cabinets today, they had a small 3/4" x 3/4" x 9" stick of wood mid way as a stiffner. In its place I ran a 3/4" plywood strip 2" wide down each seam after removing the old glue. I also shot 1-1/4" staples to connect them and liquid nails also. I ran two braces along the mid points of the motorboard also. The melamine I scratched up where the glue was going so it had a rough surface to adhere to, should be rock solid now.
 
I have them all back together and rocking the house, no more problems.:thmbsp:

These speakers are loud!
 
RS Steve said:
I repaired the cabinets today, they had a small 3/4" x 3/4" x 9" stick of wood mid way as a stiffner. In its place I ran a 3/4" plywood strip 2" wide down each seam after removing the old glue. I also shot 1-1/4" staples to connect them and liquid nails also. I ran two braces along the mid points of the motorboard also. The melamine I scratched up where the glue was going so it had a rough surface to adhere to, should be rock solid now.
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Glad you have them back together and did not break a motor board etc.
Good idea roughing up the melamine before the Liquid Nails. I think Moray made a brace for the center of the tall cabinet too:scratch2: Enjoy
Louis
 
One of my KLF 10's had a rattle from the top back corner when the bass was loud. The other one never had an issue.

I'm going to re-brace and glue them when I do the Crites upgrades.
 
TA Dave said:
One of my KLF 10's had a rattle from the top back corner when the bass was loud. The other one never had an issue.

I'm going to re-brace and glue them when I do the Crites upgrades.
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It was pretty easy, like I said though, I roughed up the melamine surface after removing the original glue from the corners, then loaded a big bead of liquid nails down the iside of the corner, then placed the 3/4 x 2" strip down the seam, then used an air powered staple gun to suck it up tight. A few extra braces at mid point to stiffen the back and it is good to go.

I really put the power to them today for a good hour and no sign of any loose rattle. They really sound good! :thmbsp:
 
RS Steve said:
It was pretty easy, like I said though, I roughed up the melamine surface after removing the original glue from the corners, then loaded a big bead of liquid nails down the iside of the corner, then placed the 3/4 x 2" strip down the seam, then used an air powered staple gun to suck it up tight. A few extra braces at mid point to stiffen the back and it is good to go.

I really put the power to them today for a good hour and no sign of any loose rattle. They really sound good! :thmbsp:
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That is the key!

I just took apart my KG 3.5's that have been in my shop. Both panels almost fell out without any effort. There was a tremendous amount of glue stuck to the cabinet, but NONE stuck to the front or rear panel.
I cleaned off all the glue, tomorrow I'll pick up some wood for bracing and gorilla glue and put them back together after sanding up the melamine.

Question, the rear panel had some swelling at the bottom from moisture, it still fits, but sticks out some. So should I replace it, or just clean it up and put it back?
 
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The issue with the rear panel is your call and the work is up to you. as far as the hot melt glue which is on the inside edge of the cabinet you want to make sure that you take a good sharp wood chisel and scrape it off 100%. You want the new adhesive to bond to the wood as it will not likely stick to the hot melt. You can use sand paper to roughen up the melamine surface or if you have a table say you can set the depth of the blade and then set the fence and slice the melamine off. Hope this helps. best regards Moray James.
 
Thank you Sir!

Good idea on the table saw, if I can dig it out of the corner. ;)
I spent considerable time removing the glue, the speakers were black and I even removed the paint on the contact areas. The factory glue didn't stick to either of the removable panels.

I'm not sure the 3.5's are worth the effort, but I'm looking at it as a practice run for my KLF's.
 
TA Dave said:
That is the key!

I just took apart my KG 3.5's that have been in my shop. Both panels almost fell out without any effort. There was a tremendous amount of glue stuck to the cabinet, but NONE stuck to the front or rear panel.
I cleaned off all the glue, tomorrow I'll pick up some wood for bracing and gorilla glue and put them back together after sanding up the melamine.

Question, the rear panel had some swelling at the bottom from moisture, it still fits, but sticks out some. So should I replace it, or just clean it up and put it back?
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If you use gorilla glue you will need to clamp it good because that glue expands and will push things apart as it dries. Liquid nails will do well if you can get it instead.
As long as the swolen area still fits tight and is not falling apart it should work.
 
There are a bunch of posting all over the internet about the rear covers coming loose on these speakers. It appears to be a problem with GLUE and on the fact that melamine was used. We can see this plainly on my set as the glue adhered so poorly to the plywood (sides) and the MDF (front and rear panels) that the glue could be pulled off by hand wherever you could grab a glob of the stuff. I tried two different methods, one using corner pieces cut to 35" and glued (Tightbond II) to the corner and just simply running a bead of construction adhesive to joint. Both works equally well, so I recommend just using the construction adhesive because it's an efficient fix that doesn't risk harming the back panel
Construction adhesive is very thick, so if you cut the nozzel back it will give you a pretty large fillet - essentially a "structural" addition to the cabinet. Is it as strong as glueing in new wood, maybe not, BUT IT WAS WAY, WAY stronger than necessary for my speakers. Don't forget, if somebody says that a 3/4" glued in piece is the only way to go, they can always be trumped by somebody else who says use a 1", and then a 2", and then a 2x4..... all a waste in my view.
I looked at taking the back cover off, but I was unable to find a legitimate reason to spend some much extra labor for the same outcome in utility.
I also ran beads of glue on the cross braces, as it wasn't clear to me that they were ever glued, apparently only attached with nails which wasn't a bright idea.
I also tried using a bead of Gorilla glue, and that worked well too.... but I opted out of that as a solution becuase it's so much easier to make a large fillet with the construction adhesive. Size matters when making a fillet (which is essentially what you're doing when if you add a piece of wood to the corner where the backs and sides meet)
 
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