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Subwoofer: Buy or build?

Brett a

Brett a

~◦●○o0o○●◦~
Hi all.

I knew when I bought my new Focal 807Ws last week that I'd want to add a sub at some point. Well, looks like I'm already thinking about it (why wait?).

The 800W subwoofer that goes with my speakers is as much at the speakers ($1,500). That's out of the question. I could get an 800V sub for $1k or a 700V sub for $600.

The SW800V sub:
http://www.spearitsound.com/product.cgi?group=129&product=1965

the SW700V sub:
http://www.spearitsound.com/product.cgi?group=129&product=1926

But seenin's how I just made a pretty nice pair (if I do say so myself) of Focal-esque speaker stands, I could very well replicate a Focal sub cabinet. It looks like plate amps are pretty affordable over at PE (about $250 for one w/comparable specs/features). The of course, I'd have to buy a driver.

Would this be heading for a steep learning curve or inviting trouble? I'm not particularly interested in reading volumes of information just to make a capable sub. Also, I'd also be at risk of coming to the sense that I should probably just have bought one once I'm 30 hours and $500 into a DIY number.

Thoughts?
 
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Building a good sounding home sub isn't difficult, the finishing is what's difficult. FWIW, I am definitely planning on building a pair. From seeing your speaker stands this would be pretty cake for you to do. The cabinet is the hard part.
 
Build it, but copy the design of a highly regarded/well--reviewed unit & use quality hardware.

I'm fond of isobaric setups and have built a few (and purchased better for less than the cost of my home-brews), but that's just me...
 
For $499 shipped, you can get a ridiculously good SVS PB1000. I used to own their PB10 and to this day, I regret selling.
 
You don't even have to build it really, just assemble. Veneering a cube is pretty easy to do once assembled. Lots of good kits out there. Go big!
 
poconoman said:
For $499 shipped, you can get a ridiculously good SVS PB1000. I used to own their PB10 and to this day, I regret selling.
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I will certainly read up on that one. I'll have to compare it with the Focal SW700 I can get for $100 more though. That $100 may be worth just staying with Focal.
 
I enjoy the build but some find it rather time consuming and not worth it.

As far as a nice finish that can be had with a nice piece of oak, walnut, birch..... mdf or ply core pre veneered sheet goods. Wipe some tung oil on it and your off to the races. You can also wipe some black stain as well and get a nice finish. Edge banding is VERY easy with the pre glued stuff.:yes:

After seeing your handy work for your stands you would do just fine at a sub cab.:smoke:

JMO

Have fun Brett!:thmbsp:
 
So, it's the advice and opinion of the guys I bought the Focals from that I really ought to wait 'til I can get a sub that can match the speed of the 807Ws which unfortunately makes sense to me. I mean what I really love about these new speakers is their speed.

:scratch2:
 
One thing to remember DIY holds no residual value either. Building a good sounding sub for home is not hard at all though. I do have to admit though, if the focal is *only* 600 I would be tempted. What model are you looking at?
 
Frankly, I see nothing special in those Focal subs. For one thing, they employ no form of feedback, or cone control, and they are vented... not often a good thing in a sub, unless you just want it for HT "boom-boom" use. Subs of that type are a dime a dozen these days, and you can just pick the price & finish you like. If you want it to integrate well in an AUDIO application, you need a sub that has real woofer control, and that means either an amp that reacts to driver impedance, or better yet, an active feedback system, like an accelerometer, or secondary windings on the driver. For over a grand, even new, I would be looking for a servo controlled, sealed enclosure sub.
 
240sx4u said:
One thing to remember DIY holds no residual value either. Building a good sounding sub for home is not hard at all though. I do have to admit though, if the focal is *only* 600 I would be tempted. What model are you looking at?
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That's the issue. The sub that matches my speakers is $1,500+. That would mean I'd have spent $3k on speakers when I really changed my mind and didn't intend to do that. So it's a bit of a quandary; either go w/o, buy one for $600 and call it good enough, or go ahead and buy the correct one for more money than I'm comfortable with.

I'm kinda' inclined to go with "good enough" for $600.
 
I'd look at used on eBay or Craigslist. I had a Velodyne F1200 servo controlled as Frommerstop suggested and it's a very nice sub and well under the price point of a new Focal.
 
frommerstop said:
Frankly, I see nothing special in those Focal subs. For one thing, they employ no form of feedback, or cone control, and they are vented... (...)
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Thanks for all that info; gives me something to chew on.

What is purported to be special about the Focal line I've bought into are the drivers; they are poly-glass sandwiched foam and are what accounts for their speed and accuracy. What do you think of the matter of matching driver speed and rigidity between L/R and subs?

Having heard both the standard "V" and then the "W" versions of the same speakers, I can report these W drivers do make an important difference. But how much does it affect a sub is the question.

EDIT TO ADD:
From this Stereophile review:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorlou...th_anniversary_edition_loudspeaker/index.html
"The main difference between the Chorus (xxx)W and the plain-vanilla Chorus (xxx)V is that the (xxx)W drivers have the W-sandwich construction that characterizes the speakers in Focal's higher-priced lines. These high-tech drivers have a core of closed-cell foam enclosed in layers of resin-impregnated spun glass on the inside and the outside. (The W stands for double verre, or "double glass" in French.) Manufacturing is quite complex, and takes about 30 minutes per driver. The claimed advantages of the W-sandwich design are low mass and exceptional rigidity. This, in turn, is said to improve dynamics and definition."
Click to expand...
 
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If you're battling between buying "good enough" at 600 or DIY'ing I would DIY. If the sub you actually wanted was $600 I'd go for it. Don't let sales jargon and salesmen fool you, building a very good sub isn't very hard. Reselling an excellent DIY subwoofer is hard. What you need is someone experienced to help you with design.

How far are you off the back wall? I wonder if you wouldn't enjoy the H-frame sub setups everyone is always talking about. They are super cheap and easy to build.
 
This is great help, thanks, guys.

Evan, I have some flexibility with placement. My initial assumption/plan would be to modify my gear stand to allow the sub to be right in the center with the ability to move fore/aft placement between 0 and 3 1/2 feet from the wall behind the speakers.

A quick looks shows a couple Velodyne F1200s on offer for around $500 shipped. (I'm not going to buy this hastily, just taking it all in).


This picture is with my previous speakers, but what I'm thinking of would be to modify the equipment stand so the sub would go under the amp in place of the center LP crate. (I would be tedious with isolation, don't worry.)


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I like the idea of centering your sub unless you are going with two? I'm using a Hsu and really like the speed,given their mailorder business model prices seem reasonable.They also offer a forum where you could actually talk with Dr. Hsu about your particular room,etc.
 
Brett, from what I understand the H-frame setups like to be a few feet of the rear wall. You could start with one in the center to try it out. I could build an "H frame enclosure" in about an hour with 20 bucks in materials (unfinished of course). The 15" Eminence alphas are $65 each from parts express. They don't need monster power either, a couple hundred per woofer is adequate. I am just regurgitating what I have read and been told FYI. I am seriously considering going this route. Rumor has it they are very "musical". Subjective term of course.

I figure you could put one together unfinished to test out fairly cheaply. In my system a pair is the only logical way to do it (they would be used as speaker stands as well). I am going to do something when I move along a couple pieces of gear, in the meanwhile the stereo piggy bank is empty.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-407
 
My H-frame subs have to be at least three feet from the front wall...and that's not optimum. Getting them out beyond that does yield a bit of an improvement, but less than three and I was asking "what's the big deal about these things?". The are indeed quick...I tried several subs, both ported and sealed: DIY using Soundstream, JL, and Dayton Audio Titanic drivers all spec matched to the box and a Sunfire/Carver True Sub. With Maggie MMGs and MG-IIIa's none of them brought "holy crap" out of my mouth like the H-frames did. Comparing all the boxed subs to the H-frames it was like the subs were walking through sand and the Maggies were walking on a rubberized sprinting track. The H-frames gave the sensation of the subs escaping the sand and joining the Maggies on the fast track. The H-frame response just seems so unencumbered and free and full of tone while still being robust and fat yet punchy. Though they are limited to about 90db (amp, room and design tweaks will improve this, I suspect), worth noting is how marvelous their low volume performance is. Never have I been able to listen to music at such low volume with such LF presence in the music. Outstanding.

I'm not guaranteeing it will satisfy you requirements, Brett, and I haven't heard SVS, REL, or any of the well regarded servo designs so I can't comment on how the H-frame compares to those box design "darlings". But if you can get that rack/stand out a little more it would be a fairly inexpensive experiment very much worth trying. Mine cost me about $175 ea. to build including the Dayton 155w plate amp....which doesn't have optimum slope for Alpha 15H. I liked the initial results so much I'm moving on to Acoustic Elegance IB-15 drivers from the Alphas and will have them on an active crossover with quite a bit more juice (haven't figured out what amp I'm gonna use yet).

Here they are with my Acoustats....

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- Michael
 
If I were to do anything, I'd be inclined to build four subs, due to the advantages of distributed bass. Probably find some model of inexpensive, vintage speaker of the right volume and woofer size and drop in the sub driver of my choice. Drive them with stand alone sub amps. That's what I did with the single subs I'm using now and it's worked brilliantly.

Cheers,

Otto
 
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