Turntable Clamps Are They Really Worth It?
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beatcomber
AK Member
Honestly, it depends on how resolving your system is. I have gotten some improvement using one on both an SL-1200 and TD-124, in regards to overall focus.
Valveglow
Super Member
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
I maintain that a clamping device of some sort is a good thing.
(your results may vary)
(your results may vary)
MRL_Audio
RIP 2022
Have a couple. Really only use them on disk where the center hole is too big, and that happens more than I care for, and on LP's that are warped. Recently picked up a VinylFlat and I use that on any LP's with warpage. Works fantastic. Still wouldn't want to give up my clamps though.
That's my thought as well. I don't know that the clamp is doing anything on a non-flawed (or even merely lightly flawed) record, but there's something satisfying about putting it on.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
Worth having? Probably.
Worth what is being charged? Certainly not in terms of intrinsic value of materials and labor.........at least, for most of them. However, if they sell, then they are by definition worth it.
They range in price from around $25 to $625 on eBay right now. Some of the cheaper ones have a built in bubble level. Some of the more expensive ones look as though they were cobbled together from off the shelf plumbing and furniture hardware available at any big box store.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
It depends on the table, and what the weight/clamp is like. I have one table that uses a hard platter with no mat, and is intended to be used with a weight. It works to couple of vinyl to the platter and reduce resonances. With the weight I get better focus and more linear tonal balance.
I also use it on a another table I have that uses a rubber mat. It helps there also, but it is a robust enough table to support a one pound weight. I get the same kinds of benefits even though the table was never designed for a weight.
But some tables would not bear this kind of record weight. The bearings are not stout enough for extended use of a heavy record weight. A suspended table may not have enough adjustment in the springs to be able to use it either.
Now there are other kinds of clamps. Some with a knob to tighten a collar around the shaft. Those would work as a lighter solution. Ortofon used to sell one that was kind of a spring loaded pod that pressed onto the spindle. There are several ways to do this. There are plenty of record weight for sale on Ebay for $20, so it does not need to be horribly expensive. Whether your system will benefit from one or not, I cannot say with certainty.
Regards
Mister Pig
I also use it on a another table I have that uses a rubber mat. It helps there also, but it is a robust enough table to support a one pound weight. I get the same kinds of benefits even though the table was never designed for a weight.
But some tables would not bear this kind of record weight. The bearings are not stout enough for extended use of a heavy record weight. A suspended table may not have enough adjustment in the springs to be able to use it either.
Now there are other kinds of clamps. Some with a knob to tighten a collar around the shaft. Those would work as a lighter solution. Ortofon used to sell one that was kind of a spring loaded pod that pressed onto the spindle. There are several ways to do this. There are plenty of record weight for sale on Ebay for $20, so it does not need to be horribly expensive. Whether your system will benefit from one or not, I cannot say with certainty.
Regards
Mister Pig
Clams are needed on some tables for instance so yes they are needed in that case.
I feel clamps are needed if you can benefit from them. If you have a reviling system of quality and performance you will hear the difference. You can even hear the difference between different clamps and hold downs.
Most people will spend 100s and 1000s of dollars chasing good sound quality. When the component is big like amps & speakers they have no problem shelling out the doe.
As far as the turntable side of a system, the signal starts at record and stylus contact. How it's transferred to the amplification and the quality of components here is extremely important to SQ. Don't get me wrong all components in a system are important. It's just most don't think spending high dollars on small components is justified.
I learned in vinyl playback that it's not necessarily the Table or the Preamp and speakers for SQ. It's the signal you're feeding them that counts.
If I took your system as it stands and swapped out and added some other components you would think you just bought an awesome table and whole new system.
These components would be all high quality and performance.
Cartridge- MC preferably
Phono Stage/ Head Amp
Arm- Possibly depending on deck
Interconnects
High Performance Mat
Clamp- Not a $50 eBay Puck
Good static, cleaning supplies and practices using them.
These small components may or will exceed your investment in some or all of your other larger components. Truth be told until one addresses these small components satisfaction in vinyl playback may very well not be achieved. But is dependent on listeners needs. However you can buy TT, Amps, Speakers And Preamps until you're blue in the face and not get what these small components will give you.
So is a $50 eBay puck going to do anything for your system?
That is entirely on how you approach your system and components to all work together. A $50 dollar puck is as cheap as one can get a clamp other than a DIY. So what do you think you $50 will get you?
PS: The list is the order I would upgrade the TT side of my system if I could not just buy all at once. But have a plan and direction if buying with the future in mind.:thmbsp:
ETI_5000
Super Member
They do help (see below for some of the reasons) - but whether commercial varieties are worth the money is between you and your wallet - I suspect some aren't!
Long ago (1980’s) one of the engineers writing for Electronics Australia (EA) magazine proved through testing several clamps that they do make a difference, in that they helped reduce acoustic feedback. This was easily proven – he just excited feedback ‘howling’ by advancing the volume level and tapping the turntable, and then noted the lowest volume level the howling occurred at, and could get higher volume levels before it occurred when using clamps, than when they weren’t used.
Some clamps were better than others at reducing feedback, he found, but they all did it to some extent. He postulated that some of the feedback was occurring due to record vibration, which the clamps ‘damped’, thus reducing feedback. As feedback has been found to be one of the most important differences in how turntables sound different, it follows that reducing it using a clamp should be beneficial to the sound quality.
However at low audio levels (when feedback isn’t a problem), or when listening via headphones (when feedback is eliminated entirely) any audio difference is probably minimal, but may be worthwhile if you can do it economically. Clamps also can help correct record warping, by flattening records, although they only work on one side of a warped record.
Some heavy weights may also help reduce wow and flutter slightly, by increasing platter inertia, although as most of the weight is at the centre of the platter, the effect will be only slight. Some people may think they look nice, too - perhaps another benefit for them.
There are numerous threads on AK about DIY efforts at making clamps or weights which will cost very little, as well as other threads discussing some of the better value commercial clamps. One of the best value clamps is still the Michell record clamp, which incidentally was rated the best-performing clamp in the EA test. The Michell clamp, unlike weights, can also be used on spring suspended turntables (e.g. older Thorens models, Linn Sondek LP12), so it’s not a bad choice.
I agree that many clamps/weights are rather expensive, but I suppose they are worth it in one way, in that you are probably paying for the time involved in making them, as well as the materials used. Just think - buying one will help keep someone employed, so you'll be doing something good for society, and can congratulate yourself for that...
For the record, I do use an ancient Nagaoka weight, but can't hear any audio benefit at normal listening levels. I have tested it as per the EA article - and yes, it does reduce feedback slightly.:thmbsp: At higher volume levels, the difference in sound may be more apparent - acoustic feedback will then be having more of an impact in distorting the sound.
Long ago (1980’s) one of the engineers writing for Electronics Australia (EA) magazine proved through testing several clamps that they do make a difference, in that they helped reduce acoustic feedback. This was easily proven – he just excited feedback ‘howling’ by advancing the volume level and tapping the turntable, and then noted the lowest volume level the howling occurred at, and could get higher volume levels before it occurred when using clamps, than when they weren’t used.
Some clamps were better than others at reducing feedback, he found, but they all did it to some extent. He postulated that some of the feedback was occurring due to record vibration, which the clamps ‘damped’, thus reducing feedback. As feedback has been found to be one of the most important differences in how turntables sound different, it follows that reducing it using a clamp should be beneficial to the sound quality.
However at low audio levels (when feedback isn’t a problem), or when listening via headphones (when feedback is eliminated entirely) any audio difference is probably minimal, but may be worthwhile if you can do it economically. Clamps also can help correct record warping, by flattening records, although they only work on one side of a warped record.
Some heavy weights may also help reduce wow and flutter slightly, by increasing platter inertia, although as most of the weight is at the centre of the platter, the effect will be only slight. Some people may think they look nice, too - perhaps another benefit for them.
There are numerous threads on AK about DIY efforts at making clamps or weights which will cost very little, as well as other threads discussing some of the better value commercial clamps. One of the best value clamps is still the Michell record clamp, which incidentally was rated the best-performing clamp in the EA test. The Michell clamp, unlike weights, can also be used on spring suspended turntables (e.g. older Thorens models, Linn Sondek LP12), so it’s not a bad choice.
I agree that many clamps/weights are rather expensive, but I suppose they are worth it in one way, in that you are probably paying for the time involved in making them, as well as the materials used. Just think - buying one will help keep someone employed, so you'll be doing something good for society, and can congratulate yourself for that...
For the record, I do use an ancient Nagaoka weight, but can't hear any audio benefit at normal listening levels. I have tested it as per the EA article - and yes, it does reduce feedback slightly.:thmbsp: At higher volume levels, the difference in sound may be more apparent - acoustic feedback will then be having more of an impact in distorting the sound.
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
The main purpose of using a record clamp/weight is to couple the LP to the platter. Straightening out a slightly warped record is a secondary added bonus.
Depending on how resolving your system is, you may or may not notice it's effects.
For aftermarket clamps that aren't outrageously priced, I like the Bren clamp although pricing has gone up over the years. It's nicely weighted at 13.9 ounces.
A picture of it on my Scout.
Depending on how resolving your system is, you may or may not notice it's effects.
For aftermarket clamps that aren't outrageously priced, I like the Bren clamp although pricing has gone up over the years. It's nicely weighted at 13.9 ounces.
A picture of it on my Scout.
bobins08
Celebrating Life
Tedrick
Infinity-phile
+1, sums it up very nicely.