quadklipsh
Super Member
i wonder if my japanese 907 imos limited sansui sounds similar to any mega buck amp that i may have been dreaming of all life ?????
SIMILAR SOUNDERS : Do you know any amps that sound similar to other amps but cost
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Reynolds531
Active Member
Compared to the differences in speakers, many amps sound similar. Some people claim that all amps with low distortion and flat freqency response that have enough power to drive speakers to the desired volume all sound essentially same.
i don't hear much diffence between amps that I have owned or auditoned, ranginf from $20 TPA 3116 to $5000 krell and mcIntosh, except for some vintage amps that needed rebuilt.
AK puts an inordinate emphasis on amps, in my opinion. The recording quality matters most, then speakers, room and set up, then source. Amps are way down the list not much difference between $400 and $4000 unless you have inefficinet hard to drive speakers.
i don't hear much diffence between amps that I have owned or auditoned, ranginf from $20 TPA 3116 to $5000 krell and mcIntosh, except for some vintage amps that needed rebuilt.
AK puts an inordinate emphasis on amps, in my opinion. The recording quality matters most, then speakers, room and set up, then source. Amps are way down the list not much difference between $400 and $4000 unless you have inefficinet hard to drive speakers.
I don't agree. I have tried different receivers in the same price range as the one I have with my speakers and there are noticeable differences.
Reynolds531
Active Member
do the receivers have DSP differences?
ev13wt
Super Member
The perfect amp will not sound different from another manufacturers perfect amp.
So. Every amp sounds different, even amps of the same model. But is that difference "hearable" or important?
Many manufactures "sound" their amps to a certain extent. Extreme examples of sounding (not amp specific, but you get my drift) are BOSE or Beats by Dre. I would say all manufacturers do this, even the ultra expensive ones.
Tongue in cheek, the more you pay the less bass you get.
(I'm joking, I'm joking... I didn't get my decompression or debriefing from the power cable thread. )
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Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Wow we hit the trifecta! Power cords, fuses, now amps sounding the same. Way to go on a dead horse beating binge!
Regards
Mister Pig
Regards
Mister Pig
i wonder if my japanese 907 imos limited sansui sounds similar to any mega buck amp that i may have been dreaming of all life ?????
Your Sansui is an integrated amp. IME the sonic differences between preamps are larger than between amps *provided you're not driving large Infinities or Apogees or some weird load*
Most mega-buck amps are power (or basic) amps, not integrated units.
Therefore the question is pretty difficult to answer
Reynolds531
Active Member
We still need threads on Redbook Cds not having enough dynamic range and resolution for golden ears and how only analog sources can accurately reproduce sound. I expect that there are more "controversies" to come.
ev13wt
Super Member
We are trying really hard to make it a good day for bigerik didn't you get the memo?
I have no idea what DSP differences are. All I know is that no 2 amps sound the same. When I started shopping for my current system in '08, I had 2 sources, a Sony DVD player and a cable box. I was using a Realistic receiver and sub with Yamaha floor speakers and a Sony TV. Yes they were floor speakers and yes they needed a sub. I went to numerous stores and tried different receiver/speaker combos. Each combo sounded different. I decided on the Denon because it sounded best to me with most speakers and it totally blew away the old Realistic. When the Yamahas were killed by the plumbing leak, I went back to the stores and tried different speakers with the receiver I have and the omnis won hands down. Fast forward to Feb 2014. I bought the vintage Onkyo for the patio system. I tried both receivers with both pairs of speakers. The result was as follows:
Denon/Mirage sound best
Onkyo/Mirage, 2nd best
Onkyo/Zenith, 3rd
Denon/Zenith, dead last
My take on how good a system sounds is as follows. First and foremost in the chain is the quality of the recording. I am not talking about analog vs digital or CD vs record. I am talking about the quality of the recording equipment and the ability of the people using it. I have heard both digital and analog recordings that sounded everywhere from horrible to awesome. Over this, we have very little control. If there are multiple pressings of a particular album, you can choose which one you like and CD or record if it's printed on both. You can also choose some digital file/download, but to keep it simple, I'll stick with the big 2. For records, you can pick your TT, cart, tone arm and needle. You can also choose to use the amp's built in phonostage or an external one. For CDs, you can pick your disc player and whether to use the built in DAC or an external one provided the player has a digital output. Regardless of what you use, they will all affect the sound quality and probably more than most people realize, certainly more than the speakers. Then there are interconnects for those of us who hear a difference. Next is the amp. Whether you use a receiver, integrated or separates, each one has a sound of its own and will impose that sound on the signal to at least some degree. As for speaker wire, same as with ICs. Then, you have the speakers, speaker placement and room acoustics and finally your ear/brain combo.
So the order of importance IMO, is ear/brain combo of the listener, recording, source player, ICs, amp, speaker wire, speaker placement with regard to room acoustics and finally the speakers. That is how I see it. I have never subscribed to the notion that the speakers are the most vital link in the chain.
Reynolds531
Active Member
I guess it depends on how you define "importance." I would much rather use a DVD player, an inexpensive class D amp, and lamp cord for speaker wires and have good speakers instead of having high end source, amp, and wires driving below average speakers.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Reynolds, if you can, would you still care to have high end source, amp, and wires driving GOOD speakers?
There was a time where I had Quicksilver Silver 90 amps and Full Function Pre-amp, source was the Proceed PDP and PDT DAC and transport. But I was out of funds and ran my Mourdant Short MS 30i speakers, which were a largish bookshelf that sold for $499 new.
That was a damn fine sounding combination, and a $500 pair of speakers can be quite remarkable. I "upgraded" to some Snell floorstanders, and that was one of the worst choices I made. The MS were a far better speaker, even though they were cheapies running with multi kilo buck electronics.
I will take high quality source and amplification paired with good inexpensive speakers any day. What you lose upstream can never be recovered.
Now cue the music: Act 1
Here we go to the all digital pieces sound the same. All amplifiers if they aren't broken sound the same. If you can't measure it, it doesn't exist, the placebo effect is running amok among the hobby, help I fell down and I can't get up..the damned snake oil!
But that's my perspective on things, and how I prefer to assemble a system. Modern $500 bookshelf speakers can do remarkable things! Or they can sound average if you hook them up to average gear.
Regards
Mister Pig
Well, that's the bottom line in this and most hobbies. We all have our own ways of looking at things, our own preferences, etc. :yes:
Putterman
Super Member
I agree. Used with a good subwoofer, they become even more remarkable.
Reynolds531
Active Member
Reynolds, if you can, would you still care to have high end source, amp, and wires driving GOOD speakers?
I found AK when I was doing research to buy a new stereo. I have had pretty decent systems since the 80s. mid to lower level Harmon Kardon, Sansui, Kenwood, NAD, Sony integrated amps and receivers. Sansui Sp and JBL L 100t speakers. Sony Es CDP, a nice Phillips Turntable and Ortofon cartridge, Kenwood tuner.
I reached a point in life with kids college fully funded, very adequate retirement account, nice bonusee etc and planned on spending about $10K, maybe more on an amp and speakers. I auditioned a bunch of systems and was underwhelmed.
Then I read Poultrygeist's thread on TPA3116 amps and bought one, then another and another. I was surprised that these $20 amps powered by laptop SMPs driving my old JBL L100t speakers through zip cord sounded damn near as good as $15K systems I was auditioning.
Reading the puffery and bullshit about cables and interconnects and SACD etc turned me off, so no, I have no desire for "high end" sources, amps and cables. Cheap is more fun, and I dont feel like a sucker for buying it
my good system is a NAD 516BEE CDP, a NAD 316 BEE integrated amp, a NAD tuner and JBL L100t speakers set up very well. I enjoy it very much and it sounds great
i have a tpa 3116 amp and use my ipad or iphone streaming 320 kbs spotify in my bedroom, with Klipsch KB20 speakers
as a matter of prinicipal i will always use cheap zip cord for speaker wires
I will probably buy some better speakers at some point, and if the speakers are inefficient I will buy a more powerful amp, but I am pretty content and not on an ego trip with stereos ( or cars, clothes, etc).
Some folks go the designed by route to save money.
That certainly doesn't mean the same parts or build quality is used though. Examples would be the Nelson Pass/Threshold designed Nakamichi amps. Or the Dan Augustino/Krell designed Aragon amps.
There are other one's like that out there--it does take some digging but is a cost effective means to purchase a step up in gear.
That certainly doesn't mean the same parts or build quality is used though. Examples would be the Nelson Pass/Threshold designed Nakamichi amps. Or the Dan Augustino/Krell designed Aragon amps.
There are other one's like that out there--it does take some digging but is a cost effective means to purchase a step up in gear.
