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Empire 4000 XL III info?

MacNoob

MacNoob

dazed and confused
My Google-fu is insufficient.

I have here an Empire 4000 XL III cartridge that I bought new in about 1980. It wasn't too expensive back then - about $40-$50. Can't find any doc for appropriate tracking force etc. I remember audio mag reviews that it was a bit of a giant killer at the time though.

I'm using a Shure M55E with a new Jico stylus right now. I hate swapping carts around (end up breaking leads, boo) and the Empire has a pretty flaky mounting system.

Anyone know anything about these things? I find lots of info on other members of the 4000 family but not this one.
 
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It's the stylus that determines what tracking force is needed and also determines the "sound" of the cartridge. What stylus is in there now?
 
Aha, the S912E stylus, as Empire called it. Here you go.
Empire specs for 66QE-X and S912E stylus-a.jpg
 
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3/4 to 1.5? Pretty light tracking. I think I used to use it on 1.5 with my sadly departed Technics SL-20. Decent cart & stylus you think? Superior to the Shure M55E or no?
 
Yes, decent. 0.6mg effective tip mass is hardly state of the art, but good enough when part of a decent design, and within the constraints of price and production, to give you good tracking at 1.25g.

Technically, yes, it's superior to the M55E. It should be, it's about a decade newer. Does that guarantee you'll prefer the sound of the Empire? Not at all.
 
Not sure this will help but I have the 2000iiiE with original stylus. The 4000 range were the rage for quad and it was considered to be a very good cart. I haven't heard one but if it's half as musical, transparent and easy to set up as my 2000 hang on to it and find a NOS stylus not a replacement. They are not the same.

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Don't get the Jico - the difference isn't so much in the diamond tip - but in the shape if the cantilever which makes a huge difference. The problem is a NOS stylus is hard to find and very expensive - but worth it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
If this is a quad-capable cartridge, is there any reason that I shouldn't be using this cart and stylus for stereo?
 
Looks like 239-PDE is the Empire replacement for the S912E.

239-DET is similar (.3x.7 rather than .2x.7, replacement for S915E) and is readily available.
(edit: whoops, found a note that 239-DET is not interchangeable).

Great to find the knowledge base here!
 
This cartridge is not related to the original quad series, the 4000D/I,II,II; after a certain time, Empire's model numbers became completely random and the same three bodies were remade and rebadged over and over.

However, it's not hugely different from them.

While the 4000 XL III might actually work for CD-4 (the coil inductance is low enough), that wasn't the original intent, and the S912E is not a quad stylus. You can, if you can find one, use a 4000D stylus in the 4000 XL III body, but it's far easier and cheaper to find and buy the S912E.

Even if this was a quad cart, there's no reason you shouldn't be using this cart and stylus for stereo.

As you say, the 239-DET is a special stylus (Empire name: S915E) designed only for the 2000Z and its clones. 239-PDE (purple) is Pfanstiehl's index for the S912E. These two 239s are not mechanically or electrically compatible. That is, the "239" designation isn't always able to distinguish incompatible from compatible. So be careful when using the Pfanstiehl index system. You can never assume anything will be completely logical. Welcome to AnalogLand.
 
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Hi folks,i have also empire 4000xliii which i currently using with my mitsu lt-20.i tried to experiment to insert the shure n97xe to that cart and its gives me an excellent musical soundings.i likes the individuality of each instruments in orchestra,its like they play solo each.i listened to brahms violin concerto and the high frequency notes is excellent and extended.the bass sounds good also.
Its good that stylus has little slotted holes in the center i just use it to wrap around on top of my headshell a very thin speaker wire so i can stretch a little bit jst to holds it to avoid any slight movement of stylus.
Just want to share my experience and hopes it helps asides from aftermarket stylus i used before.
 
wualta said:
This cartridge is not related to the original quad series, the 4000D/I,II,II; after a certain time, Empire's model numbers became completely random and the same three bodies were remade and rebadged over and over.

However, it's not hugely different from them.

While the 4000 XL III might actually work for CD-4 (the coil inductance is low enough), that wasn't the original intent, and the S912E is not a quad stylus. You can, if you can find one, use a 4000D stylus in the 4000 XL III body, but it's far easier and cheaper to find and buy the S912E.

Even if this was a quad cart, there's no reason you shouldn't be using this cart and stylus for stereo.

As you say, the 239-DET is a special stylus (Empire name: S915E) designed only for the 2000Z and its clones. 239-PDE (purple) is Pfanstiehl's index for the S912E. These two 239s are not mechanically or electrically compatible. That is, the "239" designation isn't always able to distinguish incompatible from compatible. So be careful when using the Pfanstiehl index system. You can never assume anything will be completely logical. Welcome to AnalogLand.
Click to expand...
I just got an Empire 4000 D/III. I wanna find a stylus for it even teh vintage aftermarkets. Although I have alot of different ones for the 2000 series, what would you recommend?
My setup is a 2 channel 300b amp. Thanks.
 
rudolfo said:
I just got an Empire 4000 D/III. I wanna find a stylus for it even teh vintage aftermarkets. Although I have alot of different ones for the 2000 series, what would you recommend?
My setup is a 2 channel 300b amp. Thanks.
Click to expand...
lptunes.com

Stylus for Empire 4000XLIII cartridge

Stylus for Empire 4000XLIII cartridge replacement turntable needle / stylus and styli for your record player cartridge. Buy a Stylus for Empire 4000XLIII cartridge at LP Tunes!
lptunes.com lptunes.com
 
I started with an Empire 88 and then a 108 before discovering Stanton 681E and the moving on to Ortofon Moving coils. Started with a SPU GT and then a SPE GT. Those were the years when new cartridges appeared every time your head turned around. The were always new adds in the different Hifi magazines, and reps were always stopping by the Radio station where I gophered or the Hi Fi Store I I occasionally did remote recordings for.
 
rudolfo said:
I just got an Empire 4000 D/III. I wanna find a stylus for it even teh vintage aftermarkets. Although I have alot of different ones for the 2000 series, what would you recommend?
Click to expand...
Among the vintage aftermarket brands I've had mostly good luck with are Astatic, Astatic NMR, Fidelitone, Duotone, Zafira and eBay's Rivertone.stylus
Ideally, you'd want styli voiced for the lower inductance of the 66, 4000D (including 440D) and 2000X family. But if you have tone controls, EQ, DSP, &c, it almost doesn't matter if the prime purpose is to get the cartridge making sound. It's when you want to make the cartridge get serious about smoothness, good tracking at low VTF, soundstage width/depth that I really wish I knew of a reliable off-the-shelf source of original-genuine styli for the Blob-On-Clip generation. If you give Hajidub's suggestion a try, let us know. My few experiences with their stuff has been hit and miss at best.
 
wualta said:
Among the vintage aftermarket brands I've had mostly good luck with are Astatic, Astatic NMR, Fidelitone, Duotone, Zafira and eBay's Rivertone.stylus
Ideally, you'd want styli voiced for the lower inductance of the 66, 4000D (including 440D) and 2000X family. But if you have tone controls, EQ, DSP, &c, it almost doesn't matter if the prime purpose is to get the cartridge making sound. It's when you want to make the cartridge get serious about smoothness, good tracking at low VTF, soundstage width/depth that I really wish I knew of a reliable off-the-shelf source of original-genuine styli for the Blob-On-Clip generation. If you give Hajidub's suggestion a try, let us know. My few experiences with their stuff has been hit and miss at best.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the follow-up. I have several new vintage 2000 series and so. I will look for the lower inductance.. I will read the specs of the cartridge I just bought and try to get close to it. Thank you for the follow-up again!
 
wualta said:
Among the vintage aftermarket brands I've had mostly good luck with are Astatic, Astatic NMR, Fidelitone, Duotone, Zafira and eBay's Rivertone.stylus
Ideally, you'd want styli voiced for the lower inductance of the 66, 4000D (including 440D) and 2000X family. But if you have tone controls, EQ, DSP, &c, it almost doesn't matter if the prime purpose is to get the cartridge making sound. It's when you want to make the cartridge get serious about smoothness, good tracking at low VTF, soundstage width/depth that I really wish I knew of a reliable off-the-shelf source of original-genuine styli for the Blob-On-Clip generation. If you give Hajidub's suggestion a try, let us know. My few experiences with their stuff has been hit and miss at best.
Click to expand...
Besides the actual 1/3 octave EQ, Bass and Treble on the tube preamp. I'm using a Vista Audio phono II preamp which I can adjust to fit almost any kind of cartridge via switch and can load capacitance all the way down to 200pF by adding capacitors inside the module. I'm gonna try find and to get close to a hyper elliptical stylus, then set my phono and see what it does.

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