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wharfedale super 12s/jensen horn tweeters--cabinet ideas?

rogerfederer

rogerfederer

determined amateur
Subscriber
bought these from a guy who got them from an estate sale. they were in a huge cabinet so he unscrewed the baffles and left the cabinet. each baffle has a wharfedale super 12 and a jensen horn tweeter. one super 12 has the cloth surround and is in nice shape. the other, alas, has the foam surround, which has disintegrated (i've emailed rick cobb to see if he has anything).

here are pictures: http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/cLZGG8kI/1/6541866

right now i'm running the baffle with the cloth surround super 12 as a mono open baffle (see last 2 pictures) and it sounds pretty good. but i'm sure i need some kind of cabinet to get real bass from these--or do i?

would love advice re how to use these drivers. there are some old full range driver cabinets for sale on craigslist so i could maybe use these drivers with one of them. (can i link to the ad here or will that get this moved to dollars and sense?)
 
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If they came in a big box, they'll need a big box, or you'll get a hump in the bass region before rolloff.

Alternatively, you can use a smaller box, and use air flow resistors (like ScanSpeak flow resistors) and a lot of stuffing to dampen the bass hump.
 
not sure how big the cabinets were but you can see the baffles they are on are not huge. i will look around at wharfedale cabinets to try an get an idea of what the company was suggesting. i'm pretty sure these are from the era when people built their own cabinets or bought kits and then bought drivers to put in them.

i have this bass reflex cabinet that came with a super 12 in it. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=533339 i bought it from a local guy who bought it in 1957 at a hi fi shop. that cabinet has no tweeter.

i've attached pictures of the cabinets that are available locally
 

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Sooner or later Gang-Twanger will turn up, he'll most likely know just how big a box those drivers came in :thmbsp:
 
running the volume calculator, the af/12 cabinet has an internal volume of 5.85 cubic ft. so maybe i need to find a cabinet that has that internal volume...
 
rogerfederer said:
running the volume calculator, the af/12 cabinet has an internal volume of 5.85 cubic ft. so maybe i need to find a cabinet that has that internal volume...
Click to expand...

A box that is kind of the same size as the box Wharfadale used for this woofer (+-10 liters, I'm European) should be fine.

I don't think Wharfedale used bass reflex, it's just sealed boxes right? if so, go ahead and get a box and put the driver in, stuff it well too, though not excessively.

I'm on limited bandwidth, so I like to avoid pdf files these days.
 
the cabinet for my 1957 super 12 is bass reflex. will take a hard look at that AF/12 cabinet. that is probably what i should shoot for.

portnoy,
i was thinking i would give that a try before i invest in cabinets. all i need are angle brackets and keep them on the existing baffle. could pair w/ my h-frames. need to refoam the one driver 1st...
 
Then things just got complicated.

We need the T/S Parameters for the Super 12 to find out what box it needs.
 
rogerfederer said:
not sure how big the cabinets were but you can see the baffles they are on are not huge. i will look around at wharfedale cabinets to try an get an idea of what the company was suggesting. i'm pretty sure these are from the era when people built their own cabinets or bought kits and then bought drivers to put in them.

i have this bass reflex cabinet that came with a super 12 in it. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=533339 i bought it from a local guy who bought it in 1957 at a hi fi shop. that cabinet has no tweeter.

i've attached pictures of the cabinets that are available locally
Click to expand...

Those cabs that you linked look like the W12FRS cabs. The W12FRS was a European-sold model. Check YouTube. Someone on AK has a pair. Great speakers. The driver makeup was a ceramic W12 and a ceramic Super 3 tweeter up top, facing forward, both stuffed in a large cab with a port near the bottom-front of the woofer. Kind of a scoop-port. I saw pics online and grabbed them for reference.

Wait, do those cabs have tweeter openings? It looks identical to the W12FRS cab, but I can't seem to access the bottom set of pictures, so I couldn't tell. If it's just a single opening for the woofer, plus the port on the bottom, then those would be perfect for the Super 12's. But then what would you do with the Jensen tweets, I guess?
 
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It also depends on which Super 12. If it's the one with the roll surround, I think a large ported cab like that W12FRS cab would be fine, I think, although I guess that would have tweeter openings, which would probably cause problems unless blocked somehow, wouldn't they?

What you want is a large, ported cab designed for single drivers if you're gonna' run the Super 12 by itself, but if you're gonna' combine them with the Jensen tweeters, then those W12FRS cabs might be just the ticket. I need to look at the tweeters.
 
rogerfederer said:
here is an ad for the wharfedale af/12 cabinet, designed for the 12 fs/al:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=202249&d=1269455653
Click to expand...


I think you'll want a much-bigger cab than that if you really want to make the Super 12 sing. In the old brochures that list the big corner cab, one of the options you had was to just buy the woofer enclosure (minus that top part that housed the Super 8 and Super 3) and mount a Super 12 in that. And those were BIG enclosures. So their woofers and full-rangers apparently don't mind a little space. The W12FRS has much-better bass than the W60, so I would view it in terms of that. Bass-response. You want great bass? Go big. Those W12FRS look-alike cabs would be great if the tweeters will work in that type of setup.

Here's the cab I THOUGHT those were. VERY-similar, but not quite the same. The mirror-imaged tweeter cutouts are really the only difference as far as I can tell, although the ones you posted might be a little wider (I think the ones you posted would be perfect for the Super 12's).
images
 
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adding to the picture, this ad for the af/12 cabinet refers to an "acoustic filter":

http://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/305352-wharfedale_af12s_in_original_cabinets.jpg

that is essentially an aperiodic filter. here is a thread discussing that: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...riodic-devices-eg-briggs-acoustic-filter.html

this is probably the scanspeak filter referenced at post #2: http://www.parts-express.com/scan-speak-29001-flow-resistance-vent--296-546

haven't found T/S parameters; here is a response curve for the cloth surround version: https://sites.google.com/site/michaelpublic/W15CSsmall.jpg

here is someone's effort to measure T/S for the roll surround version (a later driver, i think?): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/1104728-post27.html
 
hey, GT!

missed your posts while i was composing my last one...

so 1 driver is the super 12/cs/al (cloth surround--felt--aluminum) and other is super 12 fs/al (foam surround). maybe the orig owner bought them as the switch to or away from foam surrounds was happening. or started mono and added a driver...

anyways, the AF/12 cabinet is recommended in that wharfedale ad i linked to for the 12/fs/al driver. its dimensions are 36" x 23" x 15". and it uses an aperiodic vent.
 
AH if the original box had an aperiodic port, all you need to do, is get/build a box the same size at the original (+-10 liters).
And make your own aperiodic port, fine tune it till you get a good bass response, use plenty of stuffing.
Or get the flow resistors I talked about earlier.

Making an aperiodic port isn't difficult.

Coffee filters sandwiched between two pieces of metal mesh, with the holes lined up, mounted to the box in a way so that the air has to pass through the filters.
Add more layers of coffee filters to increase air resistance.
 
the dimensions of those cabinets for sale locally are:

"very nice cabinets built for 12" Full Range, Duplex or 3-Way Single Driver. Can be modified to add additional drivers. These cabinets are very well made.
Outside Dimensions:
22 3/4" Wide
32" Tall
14 1/2" Deep
Inside Dimension:
21 1/8" Wide
30 1/4" Tall
13" Deep
Made from 3/4" plywood finished walnut one side"

that is about 5 1/2 cubic feet, which is pretty close to the 5.85 for the AF/12.
 
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